From justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Wed Mar 29 16:22:37 1995 Return-Path: Received: from dsd.camb.inmet.com by www.inmet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25934; Wed, 29 Mar 95 16:22:15 EST Received: from harp.camb.inmet.com by dsd.camb.inmet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27037; Wed, 29 Mar 95 16:22:04 EST Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 16:22:04 EST From: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) Message-Id: <9503292122.AA27037@dsd.camb.inmet.com> Received: by harp.camb.inmet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10898; Wed, 29 Mar 95 16:22:03 EST To: justin@www.inmet.com Subject: Comments Status: R >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Mon Feb 13 13:21:03 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Greg Rose's Application To: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu (Baron Corwyn), CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 13:19:39 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1276 Again, I should place the caveat that Greg is the Chairman of CSOS, and I am a member of it. That really has no bearing on the following. I would quickly add Greg to my "Must Have" A-List for the GC. Yes, he has a reputation for being difficult to work with. I would suggest that this is because he suffers fools not at all. Do bear in mind that he chaired CSOS over the last year, and the results (whether you personally approve of them or not) are clear, and show much productivity. It is also worth noting that the members of CSOS are, in general, opinionated, obstreperous, and outspoken. Try, if you will, to imagine what fun it must have been to lead us. Yet, we all still work well with Greg, and are glad to continue. Clearly, he can work with other folks. His mundane credentials are substantial. He has also prepared an extraordinarily thorough analysis of the SCA's income, despite the personal inconvenience that producing it cost him. Greg has allowed his dedication to the Society to cost him significant sums of money, damage to his reputation, and he still keeps giving. We would be lucky to have him. As I know full well, having him is not always going to be an easy thing. But if he is willing to work with us, than have him we must. Tibor >From justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Mon Feb 13 13:44:46 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 13:44:01 EST From: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) To: schuldy@math.harvard.edu Cc: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com, justin@inmet.com In-Reply-To: <199502131819.NAA29366@zariski.math.harvard.edu> (message from Mark Schuldenfrei on Mon, 13 Feb 1995 13:19:39 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Greg Rose's Application I have to point out the downside of having Greg on the Council, which is his rhetorical style. The man has an unusual talent for phrasing things in a way that tees many people off. I consider it a near- certainty that having him on the Council will lead to having more side-arguments, coming off tangents from his messages (unless I edited him more than I'm comfortable doing). Also, a question: is Bertram CSOS? (I've genuinely forgotten.) If so, then having Greg would give us three members of the CSOS on the Council, which is getting towards a skew, IMO. (That's assuming that Bertram gets on -- he's pretty much at the top of *my* must-have list, and I *hope* he winds up on.) Not critical, but something to keep a *very* close eye on. (I'm thinking here about the fact that Fiacha is also applying.) Also, Greg *is* technically yet another Easterner, although I consider this minor, since his outlook is pretty inter-Kingdom. None of this should be construed as an OMDB; I do think that Greg has things to offer the GC, in dedication and a constant willingness to cut through the bullshit. But I think that there's also a very real downside, which we should be conscious of now... -- Justin Random Quote du Jour: "Hi, I'm Lorne Greene. As a formally dead person, I know about the boredom and uncomfortable nature of the afterlife. But now that I've joined the Legions of the Dead, and been brought back to life by Pluto, I'm all set to do the BONANZA reunion TV-movie for next year -- Yup, Dan's returned with me..." -- Olympian Marketing Agency (via Moriarty) >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Mon Feb 13 14:11:00 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Greg Rose's Application To: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 14:03:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu (Baron Corwyn) In-Reply-To: <9502131844.AA00436@dsd.camb.inmet.com> from "Mark Waks" at Feb 13, 95 01:44:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2326 Greetings from Tibor. Justin is somewhat right: Greg is not always bombastic, but he certainly can be. Frankly, I find his invective to be downright entertaining, unless it's directed at me... but he only does this on two occasions that I can think of. One is when he is personally slurred, and the other is when faced with a fool of monumental proportions. Another thing that may be what Justin has in mind, is that Greg is a confident man. As such, he has a tendency to state things in absolutes. He has NEVER, however, been unwilling to discuss his base assumptions, or question them. He is thoughtful. He is, also, daunting. Is he worth it? I surely think so. Also, a question: is Bertram CSOS? (I've genuinely forgotten.) If so, then having Greg would give us three members of the CSOS on the Council, which is getting towards a skew, IMO. Fiacha and Bertram, as well as I, are members of CSOS. Obviously, Greg practically *is* CSOS. On the other hand, if you all think that CSOS is monolithic in it's internal opinions, we did a better job than I had hoped. Our internal debates were frequent (and are still) and heartfelt. In public, it was "Happy Family" time. In private, we were all over the map. More important, to me, is the mundane perspective, and the willingness to work. Greg has both. People have accused CSOS, and Greg, of having some kind of personal agenda's or an axe to grind. I find this to be far from the truth. We did have a general tendency in the same direction: acountability, honesty, monarchy, and responsibility. But none of us had political aspirations (or, if someone does, I don't know about them.) None of this should be construed as an OMDB; I do think that Greg has things to offer the GC, in dedication and a constant willingness to cut through the bullshit. But I think that there's also a very real downside, which we should be conscious of now... True. But I do believe that the downside is *far* smaller than most folks believe. If Greg could lead the recalcitrant boogers of CSOS into effective, uniform action, he is more than capable of dampening his own needs to the needs of the greater good. Given my friendship for Greg, if I didn't feel strongly that he is a good thing for the GC, I would say a few nice things, and abstain. Tibor >From justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Mon Feb 13 15:17:59 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 15:17:16 EST From: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) To: schuldy@math.harvard.edu Cc: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com, Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, justin@inmet.com In-Reply-To: <199502131903.OAA29700@zariski.math.harvard.edu> (message from Mark Schuldenfrei on Mon, 13 Feb 1995 14:03:31 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Greg Rose's Application >Justin is somewhat right: Greg is not always bombastic, but he certainly can >be. Frankly, I find his invective to be downright entertaining, unless it's >directed at me... but he only does this on two occasions that I can think >of. One is when he is personally slurred, and the other is when faced with >a fool of monumental proportions. Yes and no. I'm not just thinking about the times when he really laces into someone; rather, I'm more concerned about the more common case, where he will post something that is simply certain flamebait. For example, the whole Sedalia/fuhrerprinzip thing -- he was technically quite correct, and it was an interesting observation, but stated in a way sure to raise hackles. The point here is simply that, by his very mode of argumentation, he's probably going to heat up the debate a bit. That's not dead-terrible, but it's something we must be aware of. >Another thing that may be what Justin has in mind, is that Greg is a >confident man. As such, he has a tendency to state things in absolutes. He >has NEVER, however, been unwilling to discuss his base assumptions, or >question them. He is thoughtful. He is, also, daunting. Is he worth it? I >surely think so. Probably; the only question here is whether he might be so daunting as to shut up some of the other folks who have worthwhile things to say. I'm not *too* worried about this -- the Council isn't exactly selecting for shy, retiring types -- but, again, we should keep it in mind. >Fiacha and Bertram, as well as I, are members of CSOS. Obviously, Greg >practically *is* CSOS. > >On the other hand, if you all think that CSOS is monolithic in it's internal >opinions, we did a better job than I had hoped. Our internal debates were >frequent (and are still) and heartfelt. In public, it was "Happy Family" >time. In private, we were all over the map. It's not that I worry about CSOS being monolithic; I'm quite aware that it isn't. It's just that I want us to keep a careful eye open for *any* statistical skew. I mean, Carolingia isn't monolithic, either, but you'll recall that I was also worried about having more than two Carolingians on the Council. This also isn't a controlling factor in the decision, just something to bear in mind as we look at the whole diversity picture. >True. But I do believe that the downside is *far* smaller than most folks >believe. If Greg could lead the recalcitrant boogers of CSOS into >effective, uniform action, he is more than capable of dampening his own >needs to the needs of the greater good. Quite possibly. If he is committing himself to making a real effort here (and, in particular, is willing to commit himself to working positively with a group that is deliberately rather more heterogeneous than the CSOS), I can certainly see that his strengths could be useful; if nothing else, he is unlikely to allow the GC to become simply a talking-shop. I just feel a need to be Devil's Advocate here, and make sure that all factors are considered... -- Justin Random Quote du Jour: "Sun Microsystems. A Step Ahead of Your Cows." >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Wed Feb 15 13:14:50 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Alex Newman's application. To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu (Baron Corwyn) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 13:13:47 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 884 Tibor's comments on Alex Newman. In many respects, he qualifies for my A List. He is a current Executive Director of a nonprofit, promoted from within during difficult times, and has shepherded it through a post-bankruptcy period and occasional difficulties. Although it doesn't appear on his resume, he is also a small business owner of two other part-time businesses. Good experience. On the SCA side, his experience has also been not merely taking part in activities, but helping to make them happen. He is articulate, and very charming. On the negative side, well, do we really need another Carolingian/Easterner with an email account? Circumstances conspire against him. Alex is a friend, and I am not sure if I should be disqualified from considering him. I believe, however, that I can be dispassionate. If you want me to disqualify myself, I shall. Tibor >From justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Wed Feb 15 15:12:50 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 15:10:54 EST From: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) To: schuldy@math.harvard.edu Cc: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com, Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, justin@inmet.com In-Reply-To: <199502151813.NAA24159@zariski.math.harvard.edu> (message from Mark Schuldenfrei on Wed, 15 Feb 1995 13:13:47 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Alex Newman's application. I largely concur with Tibor here; Alex has some *very* useful skills to recommend him. In particular, although he is Carolingian, he is comparatively conservative; in the early days of the crisis, he was one of the very few people here willing to argue a conservative business-based case in favor of some of the Board's actions. He seems to be pretty skeptical of radical reform in general, and likes to see the SCA, Inc make sense as a Corporation. A possible count against him, just to think about, is: are we starting to get *too* heavy on the business professionals? We are (I think) starting to look at a lot of folks with mundane business qualifications. This may be a danger only in that it could lead us too strongly down conventional paths, without exploring the unique characteristics of the SCA's organization. I don't think this is an especially strong argument, but something to bear in mind. As Tibor says, Alex is a friend (and a fairly close one in my case). I'll refrain from any sort of yes/no opinion here, and just make the points above. -- Justin Random Quote du Jour: "The set of things which Matter is a proper subset of Real Life. [given] The set of Usenet naming discussions is a proper subset of Usenet. [given] Usenet is not Real Life. [Spaf's First Law of Usenet, not open to discussion.] Usenet naming discussions do not matter. [QED]" -- Karl >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Thu Feb 16 11:23:14 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Alex Newman's application. To: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 11:22:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com, Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, justin@inmet.com In-Reply-To: <9502152010.AA08311@dsd.camb.inmet.com> from "Mark Waks" at Feb 15, 95 03:10:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 287 Greetings from Tibor. Justin wrote: are we starting to get *too* heavy on the business professionals? If you look at the list of SCA titles that our self-nominated or Kingdom nominated people have, I tend to doubt it. Tibor >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Thu Feb 16 12:01:44 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Grand Council Nominees To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 10:19:04 -0500 (EST) Cc: troll@sug.org (Alex Newman), justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2777 I have editted the comments below, after some discussion with Alex, to remove a request for anonymity. I have his permission to do so. Tibor Forwarded message: From troll@sug.org Wed Feb 15 13:43 EST 1995 From: troll@sug.org (Alex Newman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 13:43:32 EST Message-Id: <9502151843.AA13340@bridge.sug.org> To: schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: Re: Grand Council Nominees Cc: troll@sug.org Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2595 > APPLICANTS TO THE GRAND COUNCIL AS OF 3 FEBRUARY 1995 > In Alphabetical Kingdom Order > > SCATitle SCAFirstName SCASurName First Name Last Name Kingdom Baron Steffan ap Cennydd Steven Mesnick East I have always found Steven competent and level-headed. He seems very used to dealing with the politics that come with any organization. He is tenacious, without being confrontational, and will pursue an issue to its conclusion or solution. > Mistress Alizaunde de Bregeuf Honor Horne-Jaruk East I have had many dealings with Alizaunde over the past few years, as a customer, as an autocrat, and as a fellow merchant. I find the prospect of her being on the Grand Council a frightening one indeed. I am convinced that Honor is frequently incapable of distinguishing between her SCA persona's life and her own. It's the role of the GC to be a bridge and a liaison between the coporation and the society, in this role we must be aware of the similarities and differences of both aspects of the SCA. Honor's 'quirk' makes her mildly distrubing to deal with on a personal level -- and disqualifies her for a seat on the GC. > Lady Solveig Throndartottir Barbara Nostrand East Solvieg has been in the SCA for a long time and has an great store of related memories and experiences which might be useful. On the other hand, she has difficulty articulating her thoughts, and is self-effacing to the point where it sometimes gets in the way of what she is trying to say. > Lord Alexander Listkeeper Carl Alexander East It has been my experience that Carl has difficulty following through on things he says he is going to do. I also feel he takes on more projects or tasks than he can realistically handle. This may have something to do with his difficulty in meeting deadlines. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Alexander Newman Sun User Group If Casper is a friendly troll@sug.org 1330 Beacon St., ghost, where did they (617) 232-0514 voice Suite #315 bury Casper the friendly (617) 232-1347 fax Brookline, MA 02146 dead kid? >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Thu Feb 16 12:44:55 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: GC nomination (fwd) To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 12:39:35 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2336 Forward of the following. I was unclear if Sylard was applying for a position on the GC in addition to writing a recomendation, but private mail indicated that he provided his bonafides only so we could judge the value of his recommendation. Tibor Forwarded message: From wareham.forge@ambassador.com Wed Feb 15 12:11 EST 1995 From: wareham.forge@ambassador.com (Darrell Markewitz) Subject: GC nomination Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 14:41:28 GMT Message-Id: <9502151200094299@ambassador.com> Organization: AMBASSADOR BOARD (519) 925-2642 HST/V.32bis To: schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1624 Tibor: I hope this is the right format for this letter. i suppose you guys are getting a TON of mail refering the the Council. I pulled your address out of #2 - re: GC resume staff. 1) introduction: Master Sylard of Eagleshaven - active since 1976, one of original 6 members of Eoforwic. Long time advocate of indipendance for Canadain SCA. Order of Laurel, decorative metalwork. Fighter for 7 years, prominent artisan. Close friend and advisor to Aedan and Kaffa (barons Septentria). Darrell Markewitz - professional blacksmith making historic reproductions. Six years working at 1850's living history site. Developed 'Norse Encampment' recreation display. Specializes in Norse artifacts and pattern welding. 2) Reconemdation: Finvarr de Tahe (Steve Mulhburger). I have know Steve almost as long as her has been resident in Canada (since 76). He is always been capable of intelligence analasis of issues and situations. he has been king of both the East and Middle, and has traveled widely over the years. He is held in great respect by everyone, as an elder statesman. He started the SCA in Ontario.Over the years I have come to highly value his council on issues. he has the ability to distill often confusing situations intoclear statements. It is also absolutely necessary that there be at least one CANADAIN on the Council. the Corporation has consistantly refused to deal with the basic fact that Canadian members live under a different set of laws and mechanisms that used in the USA. SCA policy often operates in violation of these laws, or uses mechanisms that are dificult to impliment in Canada. Darrell >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Feb 16 15:00:40 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 21:38:31 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Subject: GC Council Comments More Ansteorran comments. CFO ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: GC Council Comments Author: Cranon@aol.com at CCGTWINT Date: 2/12/95 12:15 PM Unto Caroline, Tibor and Corwyn, As to the applicants from Ansteorra. I am familiar with some of them and I will give my honest opinion, in order that your decision be easier. Honorable Lord Enoch Crandall macCranon That is myself and commenting would be improper. Lord Llywelyn Gruffydd A good fellow. Well liked and trusted. A bard, rapier fighter and costumer. His opinion is actively sought after in most matters. Cadet to Master Robin of Gilwell. (See below) Lord Modius Monsdraconis Presently Rapier Marshall for his Barony. Assists the Kingdom Hospitlar and as Wakeforest Pursuivant he is my assistant. I am Golden Staff Herald. We are in charge of voice (court and field) heraldic education. Sometimes he tends to overextend himself. Baron Kazimir Petrovich Pomeshanov A good man to trust. Very willing to give his opinion on most subjects. Baron Aodhan Ite an Fhithich Solstice Herald (Southern Region) Very intelligent and good friend. Well liked and trusted. Willing to spend time with people and hear them out before stating preconceived concepts. Master Robin of Gilwell A man that I would trust my life to. Brilliant mind and wit. It would be hard choice between him and Aodhan. I am afraid that I do not know the others well enough to comment. I hope that this helps. HL Enoch Crandall macCranon Golden Staff Herald Kingdom of Ansteorra Peter C. Polk 300 E. Ash Lane #1526 Euless, TX 76039-2431 (817) 545-8007 -cranon@aol.com >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Feb 16 15:00:40 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 21:37:34 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: GC Nomination From Atlantia. CFO ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: GC Nomination Author: Dukeolaf@aol.com at CCGTWINT Date: 2/12/95 10:23 AM Greetings Lady Caroline from Duke Olaf I would like to comment on one of the applicants to the list of nominees to the GC. Duke Gyrth Oldcastle. I would consider His Grace to be a very productive and useful member of this body. Gyrth is by far one of the wisest (SCA) men that I have ever met. Even in times when I, myself , was in positions of contriversy and it seemed that the whole of the world was against me, Duke Gyrth in all of his graciousness dissagreed with me but rather than simply turning on me , he offered his advise and wisdom to the situtations. He has always proven that he can objectively and rationally evaluate the situation and give solid sound advise. He has been in the SCA forever, practically, and has shown himself to be dedicated and proficient. I would strongly recommend him and endorse him. Since I have little or no personal knowledge of anyone else on the list I will hold any further comment on recommendations and put my faith in you and your feeeling NC members to choose wisely. Thank you for your hard work and dedication. With you and those like you this thing has to work. Thanks again, Olie >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Feb 16 15:01:13 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 21:34:30 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Cc: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Subject: Re: Grand Council Applicants (LONG) >From Southren Gaard. CFO ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re: Grand Council Applicants (LONG) Author: "Steve Rennell" at CCGTWINT Date: 2/10/95 11:18 PM Greetings unto thee, from Lord Ulf of Sjaelland. In article <9501037918.AA791856740@ccmail.monsanto.com> you write: > Tibor, Corwyn, and I do not know everyone on this list. Therefore, we would > like your help. If you have any comments on any of the gentles below, please > send them to me and I will forward them to Tibor and Corwyn. Or, you can send > them to me, Tibor (schuldy@math.harvard.edu) and Corwyn > (mcosta@leland.stanford.edu) directly. Your comments will be kept in a public > file. I know personally only two of the applicants, but I suspect that you may not have met them. > Lord Edward the Discalceate Phil Anderson Caid/Southern Gaard I have known Edward since 1986, and shared a house with him for a couple of years. We were at university together for a long time. Edward was quite involved with the students association, both as a member of the executive, and a minutes secretary and returning officer for elections. He has quite strong views about how such non-profit organisations should be run. He was chronicler of our shire for two years, during which time I was Seneschal, and was active in publicising the events and behavior of the Board at that time. Edward has a philosophical bent and is quite good at approaching arguments logically. He is prepared to be swayed by logical argument, and backs his own views with such logic. He has done a lot of thinking about the meta-level organisation of the SCA. > Matsuyama Yoshitoshi Dorian Davis Caid/Southern Gaard Master Yoshitoshi is our only peer, and was made a Pelican October 1993. There was some controversy about it at the time. I believe that Master Yoshitoshi has a great concern with the well being of the SCA, however I disagree with his politics. He once tried to persuade me that the Blue Card waiver was innocuous on the grounds that his 7 year old son had signed it without qualms. Master Yoshitoshi has been Seneschal of our group for a number of years before I took over, and has worked quite hard. Master Yoshitoshi seems only vaguely acquainted with logical argument. I am willing to discuss this further if you wish Lord Ulf of Sjaelland C/- Steve Rennell wulf@sloth.equinox.gen.nz -- >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Feb 16 17:31:29 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 16:32:49 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: GC Files: Results of Round 1 of Nominees Tibor tells me that this didn't get out. :( So, here it is again! I love my internet gateway! (You'd think an $8 Billion company could manage its outbound email...) Caroline clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: GC Files: Results of Round 1 of Nominees Author: CAROL L SMITH at MONAG02 Date: 2/14/95 12:56 PM Tibor and Corwyn -- Here we go. Sorry for the delay. Work rears its ugly head at the *worst* times! The Definite Yes's: 1 P. David Schroeder (Bertram) East (38) 2 Guy Cox (Brian O'Seabac) West (46) 3 Carole C. Roos (Alyson de Ros) Middle (61) 4 Sven Noren (Frithiof Skagge) Drachenwald (85) 5 Scott Keys (Arthur the Dented) East (95) 6 Colette Goodyear (Alienor Llanfaes) East (100) 7 Frederick Hollander (Fleig) West (36) 2 Yes's and a Maybe: 1 James McManus (Magnus Maquire) Middle (54) 2 Eric Langhans (Modius Monsdraconis) Ansteorra (57) 3 Brian Price (Brion Thornbird) West (67) 4 Janna Spanne (Caitlin Gwynstlum) Drachenwald (76) Most of these maybes are mine. I need to look at those people again. 2 Yes's: Dorian Davis (Matsuyama Yoshitosi) Southern Gaard (71) If we end up choosing all of these people we'll be at 12 (32 total). I don't think we need to get to 40 if we can't agree on 20 among us. Comments? When should we tell the definite yes's? Should we do it all at once? Also, we stink on geography. Is that a problem? I think that it can be -- although we are probably close to proportional to the applicant pool, we're not proportional to the Society as a whole. I'm concerned that the people in the less-represented kingdoms will not feel part of the process. Action Items: * Comment on the above issues. (Corwyn and Tibor) * Review maybes above for further consideration (Caroline and Tibor) * Review Dorian Davis for further consideration (Corwyn) Any others? Thanks for your patience. I really hate taking this long! Caroline clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Feb 16 20:32:46 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 09:32:37 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Subject: Comments on your applicants Comments from Sir John Theophilous. Caroline ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Comments on your applicants Author: jschmidt@newton.smos.com (John Schmidt) at CCGTWINT Date: 2/14/95 5:18 PM Grand Council selection committee: I thought, after the plea earlier this month, that I had sent in this information. If it arrives too late for the selection process, my apologies. I welcome comments back, but do not expect any; if there is any commentary, my preferred address is jschmidt@netcom.com Thank you! John Schmidt/Sir John Theophilous West Kingdom CONCERNING: Wolfgang AdolphusJager Dominic Hunter Drachenwald I had the pleasure of guesting with him a few years back, and found him to be experienced in several other re-creation groups in England, including the Regia Scotia. I would recommend him, if he has time to serve, for his experience and viewpoint. Master Bertram of Bearington P. Schroeder East Meeting Bertram of Bearington at Pennsic was a pleasure, for he sounds in person exactly as he sounds on the Rialto--well informed, pleasant, hard thinking. His management study experience would be valuable! Sir Brion Thornbird Brian Price West Brion Price is an excellent fellow, but I would not recommend him to the council, due to an outbreak of life. He is working very, very hard right now, not attending events, and very hard to get ahold of; this is understandable, but not desireable. Duke Paul of Bellatrix Paul Porter West His Grace Paul is perceived as having withdrawn from the SCA in the main. I don't know whether this is the case or not, but he is not as well known as he once was. Brian O'Seabac Guy Cox West Lord Brian is mundanely an anthropologist for a major electronics firm; he would have excellent insights into group dynamics and culture, in the SCA as well as in the corporate world. I beleive he has his doctorate. Lord Wolfgang Rotkopf Dale Harris West Dale has been running the SCA-West mailing list for a number of years now, on his own recognizance, and also has organized the SCA WWW home page (one, so far, more to come). Condesa Juana Isabella de Montoya y Ramirez Donna Green West Contessa Juana, Mistress of the Laurel, is widely traveled and well known (she is also known as Grun der Spitzenkopfler) and is currently serving as the Central West Kingdom's Lochac Liason. I admire her ability to communicate. Lord Gregory of Loch Swan Gregory Turkich West/Lochac Lord Gregory is _always_ on the Queen's Guard for his honor and courtesy. He is mundanely a constable in Perth, Australia, and a very fine fellow. he attends Pennsic every year, fighting and piping. *** I have email addresses for everyone I have commented on except Condesa Juana and Duke Paul. I know that Donna does not have email currently; I don't know about Paul. Thank you for your consideration. John Schmidt >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Feb 16 20:33:58 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 09:33:52 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Subject: GC candidates Comments from Nathan. Caroline ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: GC candidates Author: Nathan Clarenburg at CCGTWINT Date: 2/15/95 12:38 AM Folks, As you consider the applicants from Calontir, please pay special attention to Lord Terras. He often has both fresh ideas and the resourcefulness and drive to implement them, while listening openly to the advice and input of others. He and his wife actively involve themselves in a wide array of Arts and Sciences, as well as participating in the administration and politics involved with running the local and Kingdom-level bureaucracies. This, combined with his relatively short time in the SCA (compared to most candidates and current council-members), leads me to believe that he would bring a relatively "young" and yet broadly-experienced eye to the GC. Given his considerable communication skills and my experiences with him in the past, I'd expect him to add strongly to a constructive discussion of the issues facing our Council. I would also like to see Duke Finvarr de Tahe added to the GC. I have a longstanding enormous respect for his abilities, his vision, and his skill with writing his viewpoints; and he has seen the SCA from perspectives and over eras that few of us can hope to match. Nathan nathan@cis.ksu.edu * . * . * . * . * . * . * . * . * . * . * . * . * "Nobody ever escaped punishment for unrighteous treatment of a cook." -- Menander's "Dyskelos" (ca. 300 BC) >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Fri Feb 17 10:24:43 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 09:27:54 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: recommendations for grand council From the Outlands (a former baroness of Storvik, Atlantia). Caroline ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: recommendations for grand council Author: memorman@oldcolo.com (Mary Morman) at CCGTWINT Date: 2/16/95 10:55 AM mistress elaina de sinistre sends greetings unto lady caroline forbes of oxfordshire. good my lady, i have been following the publications of the grand council closely and would like to comment to you on three of the gentles who are listed as having applied. the honorable lady melissa of winged hills (outlands) is well known to me as both our local exchequer and as a personal friend. she is scrupulously honest, deeply thoughtful, and well-versed in the workings of our society. she has been living here in the outlands for about six years and before that was very active in the middle kingdom. i recommend her highly. seamus (tim fyock) is also a member of our group here in the barony of dragonsspine (colorado springs). he is active at dance practice and dances well, and is certainly a personably gentleman, but he is not particularly active or well-informed about the workings of our local group or about the workings of the society as a whole. if you are looking for a newcomer without preconceptions about how the society functions, you might consider him. need i say that i feel duke gyrth would be of enormous benefit to the council? his length and depth of both experience in the sca and knowledge of the medieval world we seek to recreate are perhaps the greatest of anyone i have known in 26 years in the sca. his personal integrity is unquestionable. i hope that he will serve on the council which can only benefit from his presence. in conclusion, i would like to ask if you have closed applications for the grand council. i did not apply in december due to an uncertainty about my job obligations, but i find myself more free than i supposed, and would like to submit my application, if you are still considering them. yours in service, elaina mistress elaina de sinistre, op * * * currently outlandish mary morman * * * memorman@oldcolo.com >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Fri Feb 17 10:26:21 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: comments on GC nominees To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:25:03 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 6566 Forwarded message: From Monica.Cellio@NL.CS.CMU.EDU Fri Feb 17 10:11 EST 1995 From: Monica.Cellio@NL.CS.CMU.EDU Date: 17 Feb 1995 10:09-EST Subject: comments on GC nominees To: Mark Schuldenfrei Message-Id: <793033781/mjc@NL.CS.CMU.EDU> Content-Type: text Content-Length: 6014 Unto the members of the GC nominating committee, Greetings from Ellisif Flakkari. I write with comments on several of the GC nominees. Fiacha Mac Neill (Nigel Haslock) (An Tir): Fiacha has many years of experience in the SCA and is a level-headed, quiet person who in my experience explores options and does not jump to conclusions. I think he would be an asset to the GC. Master Michael Fenwick (Michael Andrews) (Ansteorra): I have known Michael for a couple of years due to a shared interest in music. He is a laurel who is dedicated to his art; he has also been a frequent commentor over the last year on corporate matters. His arguments are thought-out and I can rarely find holes in them; yet, he is also flexible. Mundanely, he has been a middle manager for the better part of two decades and is well-acquainted with the issues involved in that task. He would be an excellent addition to the GC. Duke Thomas Shadan (James Downey) (Calontir): I only know Shadan through electronic media (and having observed him as corporate marshal). My perception is that he is not very open-minded and that when he is loyal to something or someone, he will not stop to question the rightness of his actions with respect to that loyalty. He has a great deal of experience in the SCA and at the corporate level in particular; that might serve as an impediment when the question on the table is basic reform of the corporation. Catrin Gwyntstlum (Janna Spanne) (Drachenwald): I only know Catrin electronically. She has always struck me as reasonable and level-headed, and she is one of a very few on this list who understands the (native) European perspective. Master William de Corbie (Ake Eldberg) (Drachenwald): William is a philosopher and as such is well-suited to this sort of job. He has been active in Drachenwald for a good dozen years and holds a Pelican for his service there. He is a valuable source of information on native European matters. I have not heard from him in the last couple of years, however. Miklos (Andrew Draskoy) (East): I think Miklos would be another very good choice, particularly in understanding the Canadian and isolated-group perspectives. Miklos comes from an isolated group way over on the edge of the kingdom but travels widely enough to have an impact on the kingdom regardless. I believe he has been active for 6 or 7 years, and so is a good "mid-range" candidate among a large number of old-time peers. Lord Fionn MacAilein (Jeff Carnegie) (East): Fionn moved to my barony a year and a half ago from An Tir. In the time he has been here I have been utterly underwhelmed by his work and, particularly, his planning and follow-through. I have seen him drop the ball on relatively minor jobs without making arrangements for someone else to take over; I would be reluctant to trust him with major responsibility until I see him handle minor responsibility well. He has some undesirable traits that negatively impact his ability to get along with people, at least around here. I do not know what his level of involvement was like in An Tir, but here he has been fairly fringy, and so I do not believe he would be particularly effective at gathering opinion on GC issues. Master Bertram of Bearington (P. Schroeder) (East): Bertram has been involved in the SCA for about 20 years and has held positions ranging from local to corporate. During this past year he was one of the leaders of the reform movement, and in particular did a lot of research on alternatives to our supposed financial crisis. He sometimes has his head in the clouds, ever the dreamer, but (1) this is a situation where exploration of a variety of ideas is called-for and (2) he can also cut to the practical concerns quickly and do good, solid work putting ideas together into proposals. He can be stubborn, but he will do the work and he's one of the most reliable contributors you could ask for. It would be folly for the GC to look into corporate reforms without including the person who did all the work on outsourcing. Baron Steffan ap Cennydd (Steven Mesnick) (East): Steffan is another old-time SCAdian who spends a lot of time pondering philosophical issues. He is a good, solid thinker. My feeling from years of discussions with him is that he would be an asset to the GC. Lord Kwelland-Nhal Kollskeggsson (David James) (East): Kwelland is another good mid-range SCAdian, well-rounded with experience in 3 kingdoms and active for 7 or 8 years. He's a no-nonsense sort of person and strikes me as extremely fair. Master Fridrikr Tomasson (Tom Ireland-Delfs) (East): Fridrikr has a great deal of experience in the SCA and has travelled widely. I have known him for several years, and have generally found him to be friendly, helpful, and insightful. If he has the time for it, I think he would be a good, solid middle-of-the-road member of the GC. Baroness Barbary de Folo (Julie Watkins) (Middle): She and her lord have ruled Worm Wald for about 20 years. They are merchants and so meet a lot of people in their travels. Both of them strike me as intellgent and sane. I am sorry I cannot make more specific comments. Duke Frederick of Holland (Frederick Hollander) (West): Doesn't every committee need one outspoken 60s-style radical? :-) Seriously, Flieg has been heavily involved in monitoring and reporting the corporate goings-on over the last year (and long before that), and involved in the SCA and corporate doings since before dirt, and I think the GC needs him. Master Hal Ravn (Wilson Heydt) (West): I've known Hal for about a dozen years (starting in a non-SCA context). We sometimes disagree, but I have never seen him fail to be anything but civil and fair. He's willing to explore ideas and admit when he's wrong; he's also willing to stand up for what he believes. He is intelligent and sane. He is an old-time SCAdian with a great deal of experience, and I think he would be a very good person to have on the GC. Ellisif >From justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Fri Feb 17 12:38:58 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 12:38:48 EST From: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Cc: corwyn@aol.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu, justin@inmet.com In-Reply-To: <9501167929.AA792981367@ccmail.monsanto.com> (CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com) Subject: Re: GC Files: Results of Round 1 of Nominees Caroline lists the state of things, and asks: > Also, we stink on geography. Is that a problem? I think that it can be > -- although we are probably close to proportional to the applicant > pool, we're not proportional to the Society as a whole. I'm concerned > that the people in the less-represented kingdoms will not feel part of > the process. I don't think it's *necessarily* a problem, but I worry that it's getting out of balance. In general, it looks to me like the mid- and south-western states are rather badly underrepresented. There aren't any groups that are *entirely* unrepresented, so this isn't deadly, but I think that it would strengthen things to have a little more representation there. More seriously, I have to question the way you're going about the decision here. Remember, the notion behind the Council is that it should be broadly representative in the whole -- not proportional, but all major viewpoints should be covered. From where I sit, it looks like the process has centered on "is this individual a good person?", which is a relevant question, but not the only one, and probably not the most important one. What I haven't seen is a careful look at whether the balance of the Council comes out right. In Cariadoc's letter to Liz back in April (which was one of the formative forces behind the creation of the Council), one of the central points he made is that the Council has to cover the bases fairly well. Cariadoc's letter included a rather nice starting list of categories of people who should be represented in the Council -- Caroline, I'm fairly sure you have a copy of that letter. (I have a copy somewhere, but I'd have to dig it out.) I would *really* appreciate it if y'all would go through that, and just make sure that the bases *are* covered. They may be, but I haven't seen any sign in the correspondence that this has been rigorously checked. In short, I want to see some sign that not only are the *members* of the Council good people, but that the Council as a whole is reasonably well-balanced and complete. (I know that I don't exactly have any power here, but this *was* a key aspect to the design of the Council when we were first setting it up, and I think it's essential to making the Council really legitimate...) (Oh, and one last comment: note that, while I am a *little* concerned about issues of some groups being over-represented, I am far more concerned with groups being *un*represented...) -- Justin Kibitzer-in-chief Random Quote du Jour: "The Attourney General warns that cutting off people's heads can be dangerous to their health." -- William de Corbie >From schuldy@math.harvard.edu Tue Feb 21 12:39:51 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: GC Files: Results of Round 1 of Nominees To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:30:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, nathan@depot.cis.ksu.edu (Nathan Clarenburg), justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) In-Reply-To: <9501147927.AA792795733@ccmail.monsanto.com> from "CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com" at Feb 14, 95 12:56:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2519 Greetings to Corwyn and Caroline (and Justin for the files) from Tibor. (I added Nathan, since I mention him below.) (Responding to Caroline throughout.) Of the all the "Two Yes" types, the only one that I hadn't said yes to was: Brian Price (Brion Thornbird) West (67) He was on my "B List". I had mentally tagged my B List as the Toyota list, as in "you ask for it, you got it". He would be very fine with me. If we end up choosing all of these people we'll be at 12 (32 total). I don't think we need to get to 40 if we can't agree on 20 among us. Nathan Clarenburg and I have been discussing this issue. He said that the under-attended Estrella meeting, the idea came up that we should fill the remaining 8 seats with a lottery. I'd like to keep the lottery to within our respective B and C lists, skipping only those person's who have been actively rejected. That doesn't seem a totally foolish idea. Comments? He also suggested that we not identify the lottery winners from the chosen people. Given that our deliberations are open, that is not a perfect option, but I agree that we should not stigmatize one way or the other. My other concern was that we may want to add particular skills or people later in the cycle. Nathan thinks we can either just do so, or ask the Board, but I'm tempted to leave a few seats open for later. Thoughts on the matter? When should we tell the definite yes's? Should we do it all at once? All at once. Also, we should *ask* the definite yes's if they are still willing, before we go ahead. Also, we stink on geography. Is that a problem? I think that it can be -- although we are probably close to proportional to the applicant pool, we're not proportional to the Society as a whole. I'm concerned that the people in the less-represented kingdoms will not feel part of the process. They did have a chance, and they didn't take it. Thanks to the Kingdom appointee issue, the Kingdoms are represented. Caroline, can you tell me how well the various parts of Europe, and Canada, are represeted? Canada, especially, is a big issue for me. Any others? Yes. We must also vote on Alex Newman, and Greg Rose. I vote as follows: Yes for Greg Rose Abstain (but recommend) Alex Newman. In retrospect, there are too many social issues for me to pass judgement on Alex. Thanks for your patience. I really hate taking this long! Maybe by Friday? Tibor >From CORWYN@aol.com Tue Feb 21 14:54:02 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 14:53:46 -0500 From: CORWYN@aol.com To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Cc: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, Mcosta@leland.stanford.edu Subject: Re: GC Files: Results of Round 1 of Nominees Well, I'm back in town, Fresno was fun, how was Estrella ? Anyway, re: the action items.... >When should we tell the definite yes's? Should we do it all at once? As soon as we resolve the 2 yes and a maybe folks. Yes, all at once. >I don't think we need to get to 40 if we can't agree on 20 among us. Comments? Absolutely. 32 is a fine size and is clearly a quorum. I don't want to start adding people just to fill out the list. Plus, see below. >Also, we stink on geography. Is that a problem? Not at present. Yes we are disproportionate (geographically) but as has been said, we really tried to get people interested. I suspect, however, that there may be a wave of negative comment on the subject of kingdom bias focussing on the GC being largely composed of East and West kingdom members; plus, the middle may blow a gasket on only having one new nominee compared to Drachenwalds two (assuming all the 2xyes folks are included). However, we _are_ proportional to our applicant base, and I get the impression that we really tried to recruit for skills needed, not kingdom affiliation. Finally, the kingdom nominees give every kingdom a member, so any numbers bias is softened. One posting (from Justin ?) suggested that our response shopuld be : "we tried, you missed the boat". While I agree generally with this idea, particularly in academea, this is a bit harsh for a body such as ours, in an org such as the SCA. I really don't want to start off taking a very paternalistic stance, which has been a common complaint as regards the current SCA administration. On the other hand, I don't want to delay this proccess so we can beg for a bigger pool of candidates, and reconsider everyone. Nor do I feel we should appoint people based on geography, if we weren't willing to appoint them based on skills and knowlege. One suggestion to deal with this would be to keep the 8(ish) unfilled slots open, and reopen application from them, as well as commenting specifically on the low number of applications we recieved from many kingdoms. This would allow us to begin work, and to fend off accusations of being intentionally nonrepresentative, while also hopefully expanding our skill base. So, worst case, when someone gripes that we're a cadre of Eastern and Western Elitists, out of touch with the rest of the SCA, we can cheerfuly share our similar concerns, and invite the gentle to send in an app ! Comments on nominees: >3 Brian Price (Brion Thornbird) West (67) John Theopholis suggested that Brian may be two buisy at present to be on the GC. I doubt this, but I'll contact him this week to confirm his interest and ability (time-wise). >Dorian Davis (Matsuyama Yoshitosi) Southern Gaard (71) I'll get back to her (?) ASAP-I've been away from my big applicant stack. Gotta run ! Corwyn >From schuldy@math.harvard.edu Wed Feb 22 13:01:25 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re(6): Grand Council nominees (fwd) To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 12:55:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files), chuck_graves@mail.hq.faa.gov (chuck graves) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 11395 I've been corresponding with a gentleman named Tadhg, about application for the GC. I sent him a couple of resumes as samples, and here is his application below. Tibor Forwarded message: From chuck_graves@mail.hq.faa.gov Wed Feb 22 10:42 EST 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 10:35:02 EST From: "chuck graves" Message-Id: <9501227934.AA793478386@mail.hq.faa.gov> To: Mark Schuldenfrei Return-Receipt-To: chuck_graves@mail.hq.faa.gov Subject: Re(6): Grand Council nominees Content-Type: text Content-Length: 10410 Greetings, Tibor. OK. Here are three. I will warn you, that all of them give me an intense feeling of inadequacy, but I still think you should see them. Yeah, buddy...what you said. On paper, those folks aren't impressive...they're impregnable. Emphasis on what you can do, and how life has equipped you to do it, works better for me that a mere list of offices filled. Good thing...giving you my offices and awards will take less lines than I've already entered. 8^) Since time is of the essence, I will do everything I can to hit the high points. Besides, I can't hope to try to match these gentlemen on experience or credentials. Of course, this resume will probably be novel...that's probably the only thing I have going for me on this one. 8^) On second thought, this is probably reaching you too late to be of use. If so, file it away for future reference...consider it an early submission for replacing an original GC member. ****************************************************************************** RESUME: Tadhg macAedain uiChonchobhair is a 7th-century Irish Celt. His father was converted to the Celtic Church by the words and works of St. Aedain, and he was sent to learn from the brothers at Lindisfarne. The good brothers taught him much but his soul was stirred to travel...Irish after all. His heritage often displays itself in passions for food (loves to cook but then he loves to eat), drink (he brews...um...let's keep this brief), fighting (armored combat, duello, archery, and _CAMBOK_), leatherwork, singing (his participation is mostly through listening), and dancing. Chuck Graves is a 34-year old, Software Engineer supporting the FAA in Washington, DC. He has two degrees in electrical engineering. His occupational history can be separated into three areas: database development, education, and hardware test and evaluation. With regard to database development, he has been involved with all aspects of database application development from cradle to grave. He has supported several internal efforts for the FAA, National Guard, and Navy. His involvement has been from initial design to database and interface development to test and evaluation to fielding and user support. With regard to education, he has taught various electrical engineering courses for Texas Tech University (as a graduate student) and Capitol College (as an adjunct professor.) With regard to hardware T&E, he has extensive experience in the test and evaluation of major US weapons systems, including the PEACEKEEPER missile, F/A-18, S-3, SH-60, and Presidential helicopters. He has 45 technical papers on various electromagnetic effects and software test programs. SCA HISTORY: --born, January 1961 --joined, August 1989 --seneschal, Dun Carraig, 1991-93 --squired to Duke Gyrth, April 1992 --autocrat, Fall Crown, 1992 Baronial Elevation, 1993 SCA AWARDS: Award of Arms, 1991 Queen's Order of Courtesy, 1993 Kingdom Meisterbrewer, current REASONS FOR SUBMISSION (PHILOSOPHY): 1) SINCERE DESIRE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE SOLUTION. Although my tenure in the Society is somewhat limited, I have come to see much of its promise and many of its flaws. At my core, I am a teacher and a problem solver...and there are many problems here to be addressed. I enter my name because I want to contribute to the formation of those solutions. In many ways, the promise of the SCA is being overburdened by its sheer size. The Society is suffering terribly from the fact that appropriate steps have not been taken to provide proper administration We have failed repeatedly to take advantage of modern technology or management techniques to alleviate these problems. The Society is filled with energetic, intelligent folks willing to give their time and efforts to make things better--but seem never called upon...and rarely heeded. I believe I represent that component of people who want to be a party to the growth and promise of the SCA. We wish to help...and we wish to be heard. This may be a hobby...but it's one I love very dearly. And I don't wish to see it continue in it's 'Devil's Spiral' to oblivion. Quite frankly, things need to be improved. I believe that I bring a unique blend of qualities which will allow me to help identify and implement the solutions. 2) PROPER BALANCE OF OPTIMISM, TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE, SOCIETY INEXPERIENCE, ENERGY, AND COMPASSION. I suppose those are five qualities which I believe are important to achieving what I alluded to in #1--solutions. I am optimistic that solutions exist--many can work now that failed before. I have an extensive background in computing (but who doesn't nowadays) and would like to see available technology used for the betterment of the SCA. I am not so long in the SCA that I am predisposed on too many issues. I could name a dozen folks who can vouchsafe the energy I apply to a effort. I have heard many of the concerns of our populace, and can empathize with their views--even when I do not share them myself. The Society is a composite of everyone's efforts and hopes--none is without merit, none should be ignored. OPTIMISM: I firmly believe that NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE. I have NEVER accepted that any task CANNOT be done. I believe that anyone who says "X cannot be done" is actually saying "I will not do X--and I don't have the testicular fortitude to admit it." I WILL NOT accept "Can't"--I WILL accept "Won't". I forgot to mention something--I have an ATTITUDE. In a nutshell, no matter how expensive or time-consuming a solution may be--it still exists. I can accept reasonable compromise based upon any number of circumstances. I feel we should always work to define them and work toward resolution. CAN DO IT--SHOULD DO IT--MUST DO IT. TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE: I am very computer literate. For the most part, computers are one of the two tools I use most extensively. The other tool is analytical skill. As I mentioned, I am an engineer--a problem solver. What I do best and what I have spent most of my life developing is the ability to analyze a problem and formulate a solution to address it. While I would be hard-pressed to draw direct comparisons between the SCA and an F/A-18 Hornet, I could demonstrate how testing the airplane prepared me to help the Society in its time of need. Like so many other of my efforts, testing that aircraft taught me how to define the problem, communicate it to other people, bound the solution, and present options to the management for resolution. SOCIETY INEXPERIENCE (FRESH PERSPECTIVE): This portion is interrelated with OPTIMISM. I have heard TOO MANY times: "Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt." That is an anthem for failure--one that gets used every time an "elder SCAdian" tries to explain why some approach I have suggested won't work. The problem is they usually tell me why it didn't work for them in the SCA 5 years ago--and won't listen when I tell them why it worked for me in the mundane world 5 months ago. I thank them for their input--do it anyway--and normally succeed. Mind you, I'm not perfect--I fail, too. But "it didn't work last time" isn't a suitable justification not to try again. (Please refer to "CAN'T" vs. "WON'T") Quite frankly, my SCA inexperience means that I haven't seen some of my ideas fail. (I like to think I have more marks in the WIN column.) It also means I don't owe that many folks favors--and am not looking to advance some political faction in my kingdom. And it may sound odd, but I would like to see a lot more folks who aren't as high in the pecking order doing some of the driving. Right now, I see a lot of titles on the GC nomination list...and not many of those titles are Lady or Lord. I believe I have a LOT less baggage than most Dukes. Experience counts for a good deal--but do WE get a good deal in return? I'm not sure on that score. Besides, I may have been kicking around this Society for only 5 years--but I've been kicking around this Planet for 34! In many cases, more than those with the brass hats. ENERGY: I think I used a lot of that in the previous section. I am very energetic--many folks prefer "hyper". The difference is the energy normally gets focused. I like to see something through to the end--and like to apply every effort to reaching that end. Sometime that's organizing a group--sometimes it's losing a little sleep to finish a project (boy, where have we heard that before!)--sometimes it's running an event--sometimes it's teaching. For the most part, I do what I can with whatever energy it takes. Many times because something needs to be done--always because I enjoy it. Aside from that, I should probably refer you to folks who work with me. (Let me know if you need a list...I'll keep it to 10.) COMPASSION: I believe compassion has two necessary elements: genuine concern for well-being (both personal and group) and ability to listen. I believe I have both of them. I could produce a dissertation on the subject--but to what avail. I can say it all in a very few words: I listen, I care, and I'll work to make it better. If folks could say one thing when I'm gone that would give my life meaning, it would be this: "The world is a better place for his having passed through it." Compassion is a necessity for that hope. Without compassion, I will have failed everything and everyone in this life. ****************************************************************************** Sorry, Tibor. I should have entitled it thesis rather than resume'. Give it consideration. I look forward to meeting you someday. Regards, Tadhg >From schuldy@math.harvard.edu Wed Feb 22 13:14:34 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Representation issues To: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:13:05 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files), JThorpe@greenville.ClemsonSC.ATTGIS.COM (Thorpe John) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3318 Greetings from Tibor. I've been corresponding with a gentleman named Ellwood, from Atlantia, about the GC and it's methods and mission. (That's who I copied on the cc: line of the header.) He has a concern that the GC may end up over balanced with "eminence gris" and people whose long term participation have not merely provided experience, but a particular long term philosophical bent. I admit that he has not exactly swayed me, but there is enough to his worries that I thought I should share them. I've cut and pasted some of his comments from his most recent letter to me, below. I reformatted a bit, but haven't editted for meaning at all. Ellwood, please feel free to chime in, if I have not represented your point of view as you would have liked. Caroline, do we have any "newer" members? Do we still have the space to fill with some? Tibor -- Comments from Ellwood -- [Comments that appear with a % in front of them are Tibor] %I think we are quite aware (at least, I hope I am) that if we turn the %Society into a closed edifice that serves only it's long term and existing %members, we have killed it. Does it take a newer member to tell us that? I hope so too. I may simply have a cynical attitude based on prior experience with mundane government and management. When I first walked in the door at work I was amazed at the number of "stupid" things that went on, simply because "that's the way we've always done it," or because of management's dictatorial style. I feel (not *know*) that people who have been in the Society a long time may need to have some "newbies" around to help balance out all the SCA emotional baggage. A lot of these folks have been embroiled in Kingdom politics for a good while--not all of which is necessarily a good thing. These personal agendas can cause problems too, though, regardless of how much everyone loves the Society and wants to see it continue. Having new folks might also help break in new GC members--tho' everyone will be going through a learning process at the same time. No, it doesn't require a new member to tell us that a closed Society will kill itself. That should be fairly obvious to anyone. However, I still contend that some newer members should be directly involved. Either that or the majority of the GC should be composed of people who can view situations in a clear and completely objective manner--something I am not convinced everyone listed can do. I also would like to see people who can and will take responsibility for their actions and not hide behind the GC--since your deliberations are open, then this particular point is no longer moot. %I could be wrong, please convince me? No, I do not think you are wrong. You make perfectly valid points. I just do not have enough facts at hand to make cogent counterpoints. I think the GC is a good thing. I think you are perfectly correct and reasonable in choosing experienced people. I think there needs to be some less experienced people in on things to provide a fresh viewpoint and to "train" so that you have more experienced people on the GC. I also think that the GC needs to be a very objective group of people--something I am not yet convinced we have at this time. --Ellwood >From justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Wed Feb 22 13:28:05 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 13:27:28 EST From: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) To: schuldy@math.harvard.edu Cc: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com, justin@inmet.com In-Reply-To: <199502221813.NAA24252@abel.math.harvard.edu> (message from Mark Schuldenfrei on Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:13:05 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Representation issues Again, I'd like to urge y'all to take a look at Cariadoc's list of groups we should represent. One of the points he made, with which I fervently agree, is that the GC should have at least a few relative novices, in the 1-4 year range, to make sure we get the "newbie" viewpoint, and balance out the grey eminences a little... Balance, balance, balance. It's essential, if we're going to be valid in peoples' eyes... -- Justin Kibitzer in chief Random Quote du Jour: "Hunted by ordinary people. Hated. Running scared. They spend their lives full of rage and resentment, rejected by a society that needs to understand them. Gamma irradiated beings. On the next Oprah." -- Doug Moran >From schuldy@math.harvard.edu Thu Feb 23 13:32:28 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Tadhg of Atlantia/Chuck Graves To: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 13:26:45 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files), chuck_graves@mail.hq.faa.gov (chuck graves) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 600 I've been giving some thought to Chuck's resume, and I think I would add him to my B-List. He doesn't have direct experience that makes him a required resource, but he does have related and relevant mundane and SCA experience. I am willing to go along if you guys want to add him in to the A-List, though. Caroline, I've received nothing from you and Corwyn for a day or two: do we have any consensus on the other late applicants, or our current A-List? What about the lottery idea, or Ellwood's suggestion? Talk to me? I'm an only child: I get jittery when no one pays me attention. (:-) Tibor >From schuldy@math.harvard.edu Thu Feb 23 17:26:28 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Dorian Davis To: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 17:25:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) In-Reply-To: <950223163820_30339334@aol.com> from "CORWYN@aol.com" at Feb 23, 95 04:41:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 966 As requested, I took another look at Dorian's app (#71). It was in my "maybe" file. I've reviewed it again, too. So, in other words, might be quite fine, particulalry with respect to her experience with charity orgs, but still seems a strong maybe to me. I'd appreciate your thoughts on her application, though; I may be missing somthing here. Well, she's worked in nonprofit orgs, and has shown enough interest in international issues to correspond with the international committee. I agree that, if she were a domestic US person, I'd be inclined to respond similarly, but representation for New Zealand seems important to me... Also, we may want to consider the overseas issue some more: specifically, do we have enough ? Do we need more Europeans and / or more pacific rim representatives ? I'm going to sit down for a few minutes, and map out national and physical locations for the existing list. Let me get back to you. Tibor >From schuldy@math.harvard.edu Thu Feb 23 18:03:02 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Dorian Davis To: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 18:02:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) In-Reply-To: <950223163820_30339334@aol.com> from "CORWYN@aol.com" at Feb 23, 95 04:41:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1195 Greetings from Tibor. Corwyn wrote: Also, we may want to consider the overseas issue some more: specifically, do we have enough ? Do we need more Europeans and / or more pacific rim representatives ? That isn't where we lack. Here is a list of all physical locations covered. (Except for An Tir's rep, who I have no data for. Caroline, are we in contact with her in any way?) Domestic US Alabama, 6 California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, 2 Indiana, Kansas 2 Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, 2 New Jersey, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, 2 Texas, Utah. International Australia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Canada, 2 Sweden. The woman from Canada, while impressive, is a little weak on mundane background. So, I see a bias toward California, and away from Canada. The Californians are (already appointed) Janet Chennault Martin Costa Eric Wagner (considered) Guy Cox Frederick Hollander Brian Price Of the three "considered" Californians, the only one I think we could easily afford to not consider, is Brian, and that too is a difficult cut. We should seriously consider more Canadian candidates, I believe. Comments? Tibor >From schuldy@math.harvard.edu Thu Feb 23 18:22:59 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Fwd: Tadhg of Atlantia/Chuck Graves To: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 18:21:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) In-Reply-To: <950223164656_30347127@aol.com> from "CORWYN@aol.com" at Feb 23, 95 04:47:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1038 Corwyn wrote: Well, actually, none of the late apps have seemed to leap off the screen at me. In short, B list. What I think I am going to do, is review my A-List, and see if I disagree with any of you on those that we've left out. I'll try to get back to you. I will also review the entire stack for Canadians: perhaps something enlightening will pop up. Without looking at that stack, however, I do want to re-nominate Hossein (Greg Rose). I think his economics background, wide Kingdom experiences (and the fact that he has earned awards in nearly every one of the 6 Kingdom's he has lived in) and his broad experience count for a lot. Not to mention, that love it or don't CSOS was a major force behind the corporations shift over the last year, and he is responsible for CSOS. If I may, I'd like to push in the strongest possible, but still politest terms, that you consider him. The lottery idea may deserve some defense: I don't know. Caroline, you discussed it with people at Estrella: what did they say? Tibor >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Sun Feb 26 23:48:20 1995 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 21:28:06 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: Re: Grand Council Applicants More comments I'm not sure were forwarded. Caroline ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re: Grand Council Applicants Author: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se at CCGTWINT Date: 2/17/95 6:06 PM Unto the Grand Council appointments group, greetings from Catrin Gwynystlum of Nordmark, Drachenwald. Following your request, I would like to comment on three of the applicants for GC membership. I apologize for my comments arriving rather late and also for the rather weird fact of a candidate commenting on other candidates. I believe that my comments may be useful as you probably won't receive very many comments from Drachenwald. (Note: Through some oversight or possibly a technical mishap, Lord Wolfgang's and Lord Frithiof's titles don't appear on the list and neither does my own.) > Wolfgang AdolphusJager Dominic Hunter Drachenwald > Frithiof Skagge Sven Noren Drachenwald > Master William de Corbie Ake Eldberg Drachenwald I only know Wolfgang Jaeger from discussions on Internet during the past year. He strikes me as a level-headed person, well able to see various sides of an issue and not likely to get blinded by a personal or local agenda. He seem to have a very clear view of the specific problems that concern European groups within the SCA context. Like the other candidates that I comment on, he is a native European and as such in a position to be accepted by the local populace, which I see as a prerequisite for any constructive work on the GC when it comes to chanelling opinions and reactions of the membership. He is a native speaker of English. Frithiof Skaegge is not a member of my local group, but I frequently visit and participate in SCA activities in his home canton, Aros. We are also members of the same household. I have great respect for Frithiof's thoroughness and application to any task he takes on in the SCA. I am also impressed with his willingness and ability to find out relevant facts before forming and voicing an opinion; on the whole he does considerably more work than he makes noise. He has a clear awareness of the differences between Drachenwald/Europe and the rest of the SCA and of various actual and potential problems posed by the international dimension of the Society, and he constantly tries to work out solutions within a context of the SCA as a whole, without the least tendency to exaggerate differences between countries and cultures or the "uniqueness" of Drachenwald and Nordmark. In the rather heated discussion that currently goes on in Nordmark about our proposed Principality law and how it relates to SCA's Corpora, Frithiof has shown an amazing ability to distinguish between facts and popular emotions in his consistent effort to help work out a solution that will keep Nordmark strong and healthy while respecting the rules that the SCA as a whole plays by. Frithiof has ample experience of local non-profit work outside the SCA, which gives him a good ability to analyze the type of problems that an international SCA interface with Mundania will need to solve. He is very active in his local SCA group and within the Barony on a day-to-day basis and is thus well able to keep in touch with the membership and to pass on information both ways. His English is very good and, in my opinion, permits him to understand and analyze even fairly complex legal or administrative texts and to follow a technical discussion on such subjects. William de Corbie is also an inhabitant of Aros, but, to the best of my knowledge, has not been very active there in the past year. My contact with him is mostly limited to discussions in the Nordmark Internet group. He tends to be quick to take fairly radical position on various subjects and seems to enjoy voicing provocative opinions just to get a reaction. In the Principality law debate his position is unfortunately one of confrontation between Nordmark and any higher SCA authority. I regret to say that I consider his potential contribution to an analysis of the international dimension of the SCA as less than constructive. - William has a good theoretical education and is used to reading and analyzing complex texts. I consider his English to be as good as Frithiof's and fully adequate to the task of serving on the GC. In Torsheim, Nordmark, this 17th day of February, /Catrin >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Sun Feb 26 23:48:48 1995 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 21:19:15 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Subject: Re: Commentary on GC members. I can't remember if I forwarded this on or not, so here it is... Caroline ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re: Commentary on GC members. Author: Bart Orbons at CCGTWINT Date: 2/9/95 8:32 PM Hi Caroline, > Bertrik -- I appreciate your concerns and understand if you choose not > to comment. Others who have commented focus on the work the person has > done and if that work was considered good (or not so good), rather > than on personal characteristics. In the US this is a distinction that > many people find easy to make, since we have to focus on actions > rather than personality in hiring and firing people. (We also can't > ask about age, marital status, religion, or anything like that.) Hmm... Strange indeed... Quite different indeed... Here personality playes a large role... It makes perspective different... > If you feel you are able and you wish to, please comment on the people > you know in this manner. Focus on how they do their jobs, not if > people like them. This will help alleviate people feeling that you > like _them_ as opposed to _their actions_. If you don't want to > comment at all, that's fine too. Ok... I will try it from a different perspective... But... Please, off the record... and see what you do with it... In no particular order: Baron Wulfhere von Manteufel. In the years of working together, I never encountered problems in working together with him. During his term as minister of arts and sciences, he has initiated several initiatives (guilds, A&S fair) that are still active today. He tends to work from the practical point of view. The last thing that I have heard is that Wulfhere will/might be relocated to the states in the second half of the year... One more thing to say about wulfhere is the fact that he is 'sitting very close in the power center of drachenwald'. As Husband of the seneschal, and in the circles... On one side that is good, on the other not.. it is just how you weigh it. I would take one swede (William, Catrin of Frithiof) on the GC. The swedes have their own mailing list, entirely in swedish, and it woud help out on keeping contact with that part of the continent as well.. Sweden maintains a littlebit an independent perspective, and, drawing them into something like this might tighten the relations SCA-Nordmark... At least then the GC business discussions will also flow over to the swedish mailing list, drawing the attention again somewhat to the SCA again... (I hope)... Of these three I would not take Master William de Corbie. This purely on practical grounds. He will ventilate his opinion loud enough to be heared anyways... In his opinion forming I consider him (sometimes) biased (This sounds more negative than it is, but i don't know how to phrase it better). Though, it may sound somewhat strange, i do respect him ... He does put a lot of energy into the SCA. Catrin Gwyntslum... I have a feeling that she goes up and down on activity level so now and then. Now is clearly an up-time, as far as i can see. (This may be false perspective, but the last year i noticed more activities by her hand than in the years before them... But, as i said.. I might have missed things.. information from sweden doen not allways seep through to The other languaged areas). Frithiof Skagge... Shame on me... but the name does not ring any bell. A fair chance that I know him... (I do come so now and then in sweden), but, I cannot couple a face to the name.. Wulfgang adolphus Jager.. Hmm... I would have my sencond thoughts on accepting him in the GC. I have never met him in person. I do consider him biased in the subjects the GC is going to deal with. The fact that I allways combine him up with mistress Caitlin de Courcy (Did they use each others mail-boxes?), and her as a active pusher of the petitons... I don't know. And... Surprise: I have some comments on members from other kingdoms. (Suzan Rachel and Howard Rachel). Kazimir and Cathlin now living in ansteora. They were living here in Drachenwald, i think now 4 or 5 years ago... Kazimir has been seneschal of knights crossing, if i remember right, and Cathlin was also an officer there... but i don't remember what, I Could look it up in the files, i guess... I remember them as friendly, and very communicative. Knights crossing was the sponser of the polderslot group, and, had in the beginning many problems in communication with knights crossing. After master klement St. Christoph became seneschal, later succeeded by kazimir, communication problems disappeared... I allways considered their departure for drachenwald a loss... Oh well... Just see what you do with it... Toss it away if you feel you may not use it... But please consider it as private mail... Bertrik -- drs Bart Orbons, Warande 193, NL-3705 ZP Zeist, The Netherlands. orbons@fys.ruu.nl tel +31 3404 50124 >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Sun Feb 26 23:53:16 1995 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 22:38:34 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: From Gareth: Comments on possible people Comments from Gareth/Roy Gathercoal. Caroline ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Comments on possible people Author: rgathercoal@foxmail.gfc.edu at CCGTWINT Date: 2/23/95 2:16 PM Here are some brief comments about certain of the candidates I have known >from the Middle Kingdom Mistress Myrra de Blackwoode Jeri Matteson-HughMiddle Myrra was Kingdom Seneschal before me. She has worked tirelessly in the Middle Kingdom, serving previously as Minister of Arts, where she helped greatly to establish that office on more secure footing after it had suffered a rather divisive controversy. She was recruited for the Kingdom Seneschal position after her predecessor, Baron Thrym, found himself unable to complete his tenure. Myrra did a remarkable job of taking the office through those difficult transition times (including having all of the office records impounded by customs. . .) to reestablish it on a solid footing. She is particularly strong in her attention to detail. A laurel and a pelican, she would bring valuable experience in both the arts and in administration to the Grand Council. Duke Finnvarr de Taahe Steve Muhlberger Middle Finnvarr has accumulated a great deal of experience in the society, at every level. He has served not only as Crown and knight but also as board member and as one of the rallying points around which Ealdormere formed. Honorable Lord AElwine Edwinsson Charles Wright Middle Aelwine served well as exchequer to the Middle Kingdom. I find him very easy to work with. He seems to be able to find the ground between unworkable dogmatic rules-following and getting things done in the "real world" of branch finances. His perspective would be valuable. . Duchess Katherine of Sternfeld Katherine Marette Middle Katherine has also served as Crown and as Kingdom Arts minister. Her largest service in the kingdom would probably be in providing wise and continuing counsel to each of the Crowns of the Middle Kingdom. She has developed a vision for the kingdom that enables her to be an effective counselor, even to crowns who are inexperienced or who do not realize the importance of receiving good counsel. Her strengths would lie in administration and in providing a perspective of the Crown. . Master Thorbjorn the Greysides Wesley Noel Middle Thorbjorn is well experienced in the kingdom, and has served his kingdom well over many years. I was particularly impressed by his ability to help, with Baron Rathlin to lead his barony through some very divisive times to emerge as one of the models of cooperation and mutual respect. Sir Mencken Brechen Michael Cohen Middle Mencken is one of the underutilized treasures of the kingdom. His carefree manner belies a down-to-earth perspective and deep sense of responsibility that are invaluable in a society in which the altogether-too-serious and the unable-to-get-things-done are too often mutually exclusive. Baroness Barbary de Folo Julie Watkins Middle Barbary has served the barony of Wyrmwald for many years. She has also been a frequent voice among the peerage of the Middle Kingdom. She would be able to represent the views of the truly "old-timers" in the Middle Kingdom. I am reserving any comments on people with whom I have not worked, including those wonderful gentles with whom I have just become acquainted in my new kingdom, An Tir. I would be happy to further address my perspective on any of the above candidates, should further information be desired. Thank you, Roy Gathercoal >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Tue Feb 28 12:25:56 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: What's up with nominations? To: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 12:24:55 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 156 Caroline (et al.) I think we ought to put something in this weeks Chronicle about the state of the nominations. What state, exactly, are they in? Tibor >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Fri Mar 3 14:13:34 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 13:15:08 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: Re: Grand Council Recomendations Comments on Karen Larsdatter, who, incidentally, received her AoA last weekend. She remains on my B list, but she's newish and knows Caid and is learning Atlantia. Do we need such traits? Caroline clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re: Grand Council Recomendations Author: Nancy Pollak at CCGTWINT Date: 3/1/95 3:00 PM Dear Lady Caroline Forbes of Oxfordshire and whomever else is concerned, I highly recommend Lady Karen Larsdatter (Karen Green) for the Grand Council. In the two years that she was at the College of Boethius, and the one year that she was senechal, she made herself invaluble to the College. She is a woman who knows how to get things done. In the year that she was Senechal, she also autocratted a Festival of the Rose for Caid with very little help from the rest of the college, and her event managed to raise at least $100 for the kingdom, if not more. She is currently senechal at the soon to be Insipient College of St. Stephen (the name will be announced in a few days) in Atlantia, a chapter which she founded. She also received her AoA in Atlantia after being in that kingdom for only four or five months. At Estrella last year, she was the sign-language interpreter for the Grand Court meeting. Her contributions to the Society were recognized last weekend when she recieved her AoA after only four or five months in Atlantia. Through her e-mail usage, Karen has met many members of the society, all over the world. She has on several occasions put me in touch with people in other Kingdoms, and I know she keeps correspondence with many others. She is known as very approachable, which will be very useful in bringing the feelings of society members to the Board of Directors. In addition to her society ties, she also has experience with public relations. For three or four summers she worked for the Council of Black Journalists (?), and her duties included helping organize their conventions. Despite her experience and determination, her most valuble skill to the Grand Council is her ability to stay neutral. While she was Senechal, somehow she managed to keep the College of Boethius outside of the politics in the surrounding shires and barronies. She did this job so well infact, that we are only now realizing what a feat that was. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Karen. I still ask her advice about Society matters, even though she is on the other side of the continent. She is someone you can count on to be fair, non-political, approachable, and dedicated. Thank you, Naomi Exchequer, College of Boethius >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Fri Mar 3 16:26:48 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Grand Council Recomendations To: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 16:25:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) In-Reply-To: <950303161807_38361985@aol.com> from "CORWYN@aol.com" at Mar 3, 95 04:19:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1544 However, I'd like to propose that we step back from discussing the B list and the later applicants, and at least move on the candidates that got three yes votes. I'm getting concerned that we're taking a long time to do this. While we don't have a 40 member council, with the AAA list people, we certainly have enough, AND we have many of the neccessary skills to begin substantive work. Once this is done, we can consider ongoing candidates simultaniously with the work of the council. I do think that we need to get moving on this. Greetings from Tibor to Corwyn (and Justin and Caroline) First, a technical comment. Corwyn, when you send to multiple recipients via AOL, the individual recipients can't see who got the message. So, if you sent the above to say Caroline, me and Justin, we can't tell. That is why I started out my message as above, in case AOL is stupid with inbound mail too. I agree that we should merely move on the candidates we have. In addition, I again want to call for SERIOUS consideration of Hossein. And, I think we need to beef up our Canadian presence. I discussed this with Caroline today (I called her at work) and we discovered that her outbound email was once again delayed. I will be out of town from late Sunday night the 5th through Saturday the 11th, for a wonderful cruise/vacation. So, no email, no phone. Sorry, but only slightly. We must act soonest. Again: 1. Accept the current list. 2. Discuss Hossein fully. 3. Add at least one or two Canadians. Tibor >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Fri Mar 3 16:48:38 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Arthur the Dented To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 16:47:43 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 266 More from Arthur the Dented. He's on, but doesn't know it yet. His pitch is good, though. I got this message from Arthur the Dented a little over a week ago. I had actually told him the vote status for him, and have been corresponding with him since. Tibor >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Fri Mar 3 17:01:15 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Late arriving mail To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 16:59:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) In-Reply-To: <9502037942.AA794274503@ccmail.monsanto.com> from "CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com" at Mar 3, 95 03:45:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1787 Sorry about this, but my mailer is being re-configured via trial and error by our departing systems administrator. Therefore, my previous note was out of order. Nevertheless, I'm going to comment on this one. 1) I tell the A list (below) that they are on the GC on Monday 6 March and send that list to Justin to get mailings. Good. 2) We not fill the remaining slots at all and see how we're doing with responses, diversity of thought, etc. 3) If we feel we need something else (Western Canada, for example) and have a qualified applicant in the pool (regardless of when they applied) we appoint that person. I think we need to address this ASAP. There are legal issues for Canadians that need good representations. Caroline did point out to me that Myrddin the Just (East) is an expatriate Anglophone Quebecois, but I'm stil not sure that we should let Western Canada be unrepresented. Without having checked the list for all possible Canadian candidates, what about Finnvarr? 4) I also send a note to the remaining applicants telling them that we've finished the initial fill, that we'll keep them on file in case we need their skills, and encourage them to follow the discussion. Want to see that note before I send it out? Nope. You can write. I don't think we've come to consensus on Dorian Davis. I think she'd be a good addition, but I don't have the feeling we all agree. Let me know if I'm incorrect in this assumption. Who's odd man out on her? I thought I voted yes, didn't I? I can recheck. If I don't hear any objections, this is the plan. Tibor, have a great cruise! Also (whine whine) Hossein. Tibor >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Fri Mar 3 18:10:34 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 17:10:18 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: CORWYN@aol.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Subject: GC Comments Re: Hossein I have paper copies of Hossein's resume for the files. He's not in the original stack. Tibor, please forward what you have from Hossein to Corwyn. My thoughts: He obviously cares about the Society and reform. I believe, however, that he does not provide significantly diverse skills not otherwise represented. I vote no. He can, of course, contribute through whomever will pass along his commentary and messages. Caroline off to Coronation (not Crown -- I know it's one of those kingdom-type events! :) ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Hossein Author: CORWYN@aol.com at CCGTWINT Date: 3/3/95 4:39 PM Caroline And Tibor So, whats the deal on Hossein ? Did we even recieve a resume/app from him ? If so, what number was it ? I really don't think I have it, as I remember at the time being suprized that he didn't apply. So okay, lets discuss. Tibor really feels that he should be included. I have doubts, but I'm willing to listen. Caroline, I notice that you haven't commented on this either. What are your thoughts ? Corwyn >From schuldy@MATH.HARVARD.EDU Fri Mar 3 22:56:36 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: GC Comments Re: Hossein To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 22:56:04 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) In-Reply-To: <9502037942.AA794279680@ccmail.monsanto.com> from "CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com" at Mar 3, 95 05:10:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1689 Greetings from Tibor. Caroline wrote: I have paper copies of Hossein's resume for the files. He's not in the original stack. Tibor, please forward what you have from Hossein to Corwyn. Done. My thoughts: He obviously cares about the Society and reform. I believe, however, that he does not provide significantly diverse skills not otherwise represented. I vote no. His medieval knowledge is good, but perhaps not too relevant. His Political Science skills are outstanding: and his job history of news reporting during the Iranian Revolution shows a lot. His reportage skills and writing are tremendous. Politics is the study of the possible in human interaction. We could surely use an expert in it. Not to mention, he also understands econometrics, statistical analysis, and accounting. See his recent analysis of the Society's income for the Marketting committee for the proof of the pudding. Frankly, Caroline, I'm gonna play an ugly card too. While Greg is not the sole provider of the reform movement, he is definately one of the big players in getting reform of the SCA Incorporated seriously considered. The complexion of the reform movement is colored strongly by his interest and effort. He's earned it. He wants it. He's willing to put major mundane projects on hold to work on it. Why can't he have it? He can, of course, contribute through whomever will pass along his commentary and messages. There might be a person so inclined... All we are really denying him is a vote, and in exchange, we are denying ourselves one hell of a good resource. Tibor (And, heck, *I* want it too.) >From schuldy@MATH.HARVARD.EDU Sat Mar 4 19:55:52 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Let's put things on hold a bit. To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 19:54:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2254 Greetings from Tibor. I've been discussing things with a few folks, and I have come to a rather depressing conclusion. Our mutual charter was to fill out the remaining members of the GC. We have not done that, and we must. It is not politically expedient or acceptible for us to do less than that. I don't feel I can sign my name to the job, unless the job is done. Given that is the case, I believe we must withhold release of our list at this time, until we can fill out the committee. This means resolution tomorrow (Sunday 3/4/95) or next weekend, when I return. ---------------- Also, I believe that we must increase our Canadian representation, for mundane purposes. ---------------- Finally, I feel the need to return to Greg Rose's (Hossein) application. Greg first submitted his resume to AElflaed, who did not use it. Then he sent a second application to Caroline, who did not distribute it. Finally, he sent a third application to me, which Corwyn did not consider. The man deserves to be seriously considered, and has not been. Caroline's rejection was: My thoughts: He obviously cares about the Society and reform. I believe, however, that he does not provide significantly diverse skills not otherwise represented. I vote no. That means he is being penalized for late consideration, despite having submitted his resume several times. That is inappropriate, and we should consider him a hardship case. Perhaps we should name and analyze whose skills there are that duplicate his, and do a little set theory. If his skill set includes theirs, and also supercedes them, they should be discarded to make room for him. If their skill set merely overlaps his, but they provide skills he does not, then he still merits consideration. Which of our candidates provides the breadth of Kingdom residence in one individual? Which provides a background in journalism, politics, history, econometrics? We get all those in one package with Hossein. He is extraordinarily qualified. I'd have more sympathy for the rejection if we didn't have vacancies going begging. I believe that before we can reject him, we must have active and solid reasons for the rejection. We cannot merely say "not enough there". Tibor >From CORWYN@aol.com Sat Mar 11 16:52:03 1995 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 16:51:56 -0500 From: CORWYN@aol.com To: clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com Cc: schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Subject: Dorian Caroline, Sorry to hear you've been sick. Hope you're doing better ! Just time for a quick note on stuff: As to Dorian, I would vote yes. I think I was kind of vacillating earlier, why, I'm not sure. She looks fine on re-review. Let me know when you've talked to Hossain; I'll give an official vote then. As you know, the reviews on SCA-West are pretty consistently positive beyond equally consistent concerns about his general style. Glad to see the announcements ! Hoo Ya. Later, Corwyn >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Mon Mar 13 09:11:07 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: GC Nominees (fwd) To: schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei), Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:06:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1970 Forwarded message: From albion@castle.ed.ac.uk Mon Mar 13 07:40 EST 1995 From: Andrew Casson Subject: GC Nominees To: schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 12:36:39 GMT Message-ID: <9503131236.aa01600@uk.ac.ed.castle> Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1576 Greetings from Wolfgang, Sorry that this is rather tardy, and may be irrelevant, given that I hardly know any of then, but here are my opinions on the applicants for the GC from Drachenwald, in order of preference. Lady Catrin (Janna Spanne): I've never met this lady, but my email conversations with her suggest that she's sensible, constructive and expresses herself clearly. Good at arguing her case, but willing to see the other side. Lord Frithof (Sven Noren): Again, another person I've never met, but is highly regarded and has lots of Swedish non-profit experience. Equel top with Catrin. Master William de Corbie (Ake Eldberg): No experience, other than Rialto postings, where I felt that he was rather unwilling to accept views other than his own. Sir Wulfhere (Martin Hickey): The one person I have met, though since he's left, or is about to leave Drachenwald, I'd say that he probably shouldn't be considered. Although he has a lot of experience of Drachenwald, I think he would be least desirable, being a non-native. I'd appoint Catrin and/or depending on space, Frithof. I'd only appoint me if a non-Swede from Drachenwald was thought necessary. Wolfgang Adolphus Jager Harpelestane (Dominic Hunter) PS. Having looked at the collected comments on the Web, I noticed that you have me down in your list as Andrew Casson - presumably from the email address (`albion' is a society account: he's the person responsible for it). It might be worthwhile, to avoid confusion, changing the name. I'll let `Drachenwald (_England_)' go by without comment... :-) >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Mon Mar 13 13:11:22 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Grand Council Moving Forward To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:06:29 -0500 (EST) Cc: schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu, corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com In-Reply-To: <9502107948.AA794879125@ccmail.monsanto.com> from "CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com" at Mar 10, 95 03:03:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1472 Greetings from Tibor. Greetings from Caroline. After talking with Tibor on Sunday and Corwyn last night, I have decided to move forward with what I recommended last Friday. We cannot wait longer to hash out how to choose the remaining 9 people without getting the 11 consensus people on board. You will receive a copy of the note I sent to the people we have agreed upon. This is EXACTLY counter to what I discussed on Sunday the 5th of March, Caroline. I SPECIFICALLY stated that I would withold my approval until I came back from vacation, except for one SPECIFIC exception that we have not met. I will not attempt to unscramble the eggs. But this is not welcome news to me, and I am VERY disappointed. I will email Hossein to discuss with him my concerns about him joining the GC and will let you know his response. Thank you. I will email or write the remaining applicants to let them know that we will keep their application on file in case we need their skills in the future. Does this mean that, once again, my request that we fill most of the remaining seats, and that we increase our Canadian representation? Tibor, you have commented that you think we need a western Canadian. Whom do you suggest? When we spoke, you had agreed to review the database for those folks that have Canadian address, and get back to me. Tibor >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Mar 16 00:00:17 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 22:57:34 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: Proposal to pick the rest Hi. The note to Hossein went out just now; you should have it soon. Let me know if it doesn't appear in your mailbox by the end of the day. If we pick Hossein, we will have 33. This leaves 7. I suggest that we each pick 2 by Friday the 17th and agree upon the last by Friday as well. Send us your 2 picks and rank my proposed list plus add up to 5 of your own. You may re-rank after seeing the whole list, provided you send it to me by Friday evening. The highest ranked person (lowest sum) gets the 7th spot. I want to finish this stuff up on Saturday in between doing my taxes. My 2 picks: Gerald O'Leary (Gyrth Oldcastle) (19) (On my initial yes list.) Joe Heck (Terras) (37) (Because he was on my maybe list and he shook out to the top, not because of Nathan.) Proposed list for you to rank and amend: 1. Robert Ament (Robert of the Isles) (83) 2. Michael Andrews (Michael Fenwick) (88) 3. Karin Thirlwell (Erna Kajadotter) (106) 4. Karen Green (Karen Larsdatter) (59) 5. Thomas Yasin (Bjorn hinn Heppni) (27) Tibor asked about Canadians. Here's the list of those remaining: 21 Michael Cohen Mencken Brechen Ontario 65 Andrew Draskoy Miklos Newfoundland 105 Steve Muhlberger Finnvarr de Taahe Ontario 106 Karin Thirlwell Erna Kajadotter Alberta 110 Trent Becker Alen Bendbow Saskatchewan I eagerly await your response. Caroline Glad to be using the tools she learned in facilitation class in Carolingia this week. clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Mar 16 00:00:27 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 21:47:34 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: Mark Schuldenfrei Cc: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com Subject: Re[2]: Grand Council Moving Forward Tibor -- As we discussed on Monday nite, you and I misunderstood each other last Sunday. I thought that since we agreed on the new 12, we could go ahead and then deal with the rest later. You thought we had a different understanding. It was convenient that we could hash that out in a 2 minute conversation rather than a few days' worth of emails. Caroline ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Grand Council Moving Forward Author: Mark Schuldenfrei at CCGTWINT Date: 3/13/95 12:18 PM Greetings from Tibor. Greetings from Caroline. After talking with Tibor on Sunday and Corwyn last night, I have decided to move forward with what I recommended last Friday. We cannot wait longer to hash out how to choose the remaining 9 people without getting the 11 consensus people on board. You will receive a copy of the note I sent to the people we have agreed upon. This is EXACTLY counter to what I discussed on Sunday the 5th of March, Caroline. I SPECIFICALLY stated that I would withold my approval until I came back from vacation, except for one SPECIFIC exception that we have not met. I will not attempt to unscramble the eggs. But this is not welcome news to me, and I am VERY disappointed. I will email Hossein to discuss with him my concerns about him joining the GC and will let you know his response. Thank you. I will email or write the remaining applicants to let them know that we will keep their application on file in case we need their skills in the future. Does this mean that, once again, my request that we fill most of the remaining seats, and that we increase our Canadian representation? Tibor, you have commented that you think we need a western Canadian. Whom do you suggest? When we spoke, you had agreed to review the database for those folks that have Canadian address, and get back to me. Tibor >From CORWYN@aol.com Thu Mar 16 03:40:51 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 03:38:50 -0500 From: CORWYN@aol.com To: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu, clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com Cc: CORWYN@aol.com Subject: last batch It's a good thing I got bored tonight and checked EMail. Otherwise this may not have reached me. Two day turnarounds are a bit risky. I should mention that due to work I am going to most likely be "away" thru late LATE thurs, and will be either at or prepping for March Crown till Monday night. Assuming it doesn't wash away, anyhow. Have you heard? the Great California Drought is over.... Sigh. You know, the house we moved out of about five months ago was sitting in about six feet of water when last I heard. Talk about dodging a bullet-or at least a soggy one, I guess. Anyway, I'm rambling a bit. Oh yes. The last members. Here are my two choices, both on my original yes list, and still important for diversity of life and SCA life, among other reasons: Edward L. Eisenstein (Lord Alban St. Albans) (40) Kristofer L. Hellstrom (Edric Aaron Hartwood) (72) As to the Canadians: If we need a western Canadian (which we probably do) the obvious choices are 106 Karin Thirlwell Erna Kajadotter Alberta 110 Trent Becker Alen Bendbow Saskatchewan Alen seems okay, if not stellar; unfortunately I dont seem to have an app for Karin. Being an old Albertan myself, I'd like to give her a fair chance. So if one of y'all could either send me her app (if it was Emailed) or any quick info you can, I'd appreciate it. As to ranking the list: no can do in the time alotted. If I miss out, well, okay. However, if number seven can wait until weds or thurs, I'll be able to do a thoughtful job. Alternatively, perhps the extra Canadian can be #7 ? Hossian: Tibor, I am not ignoring him. Sorry you felt I was not considering his application, but I didn't have much to go on to make a comment, particulalry given his application being possibly "dissapeared". Now, thanks to many good gentles, I do. I think he would be an excellent member, but, as I told Caroline, I have "concerns"; however, I am willing to let him address them. Caroline's note adequately expressed those concerns (yes, I got it), and I await his response. So, until then no vote. Keep in mind I may be unhooked until late Monday. Also, I'm glad things have straightened out regarding the announcement of members. Tibor, If you want to talk to me about what happened, feel free. Anyway, I think that covers things. Corwyn, sleepy, etc. >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Thu Mar 16 09:32:19 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Re[2]: GC Waiting.... (fwd) To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 09:31:56 -0500 (EST) Cc: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei), nathan@depot.cis.ksu.edu (Nathan Clarenburg), justin@inmet.com (For GC Files) In-Reply-To: <9502157953.AA795337426@ccmail.monsanto.com> from "CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com" at Mar 15, 95 09:45:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1011 Greetings from Tibor. Caroline wrote: I reply: This is one of the problems we face with being open about where we are in the process. I understand Terras' frustration. Tibor, since you posted the list, do you have any comment? Yes, but you won't like it: sigh. I think we have done a decent job when it comes to actually picking candidates. I think our responsiveness, publicity and most of all timeliness, stink. We should have been at this point by February 1. I have not yet sent the not-selected-now members their letter yet because it was a little lower on my list. It will be done this week. Not to mention that we have yet to finish selecting the balance of the committee. We have 7 spots remaining, which I will work with the committee to finish selecting this week. Since posting this, Corwyn has made it clear that real-world constraints will make it impossible to complete this task until Monday. Ce la vie. Tibor >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Thu Mar 16 10:48:46 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Proposal to pick the rest To: Mcosta@Leland.Stanford.edu, corwyn@aol.com, CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com (Caroline Smith), justin@inmet.com (For GC Files), schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:40:31 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4377 Greetings from Tibor. Glad to be nearing the end of the tunnel, I am. Presuming all goes well with Hossein, I agree that we have 7 seats to fill. Canadian-wise, we would have only 6 seats to fill, if we pick a Canadian. I have tentatively set my sights on Steve Muhlberger. He is senior in the SCA, has multiple country experience, and is eager enough to have filled my mailbox several times with cogent commentary. Plus, the general commentary is good, and we all have picked him as roughly B list anyway. Since I expect this is a non-controversial choice, I am exhibiting the hubris of considering it a done deal. I doubt anyone has real objections, but if we do... see my comments below on the other Canadian candidates. So, (if Hossein works out) that would leave us with 6 seats. I would note that with Nathan and Caroline, plus Caroline recommending Terras (a good choice) and Corwyn recommending Alban (another good choice) we have 4 Calontiri. You two may want to discuss between you (perhaps by phone) if that is too many. I can deal with it, but it's an observation. I am happy if we each pick two, and live with it. Pick your two. Gerald O'Leary (Gyrth Oldcastle) (19) (On my initial yes list.) Joe Heck (Terras) (37) (Because he was on my maybe list and he shook out to the top, not because of Nathan.) Good choices. I'm going to recommend two of my own: Michael Andrews (Michael Fenwick of Fotheringay), Ansteorra, and Nigel Haslock (Fiacha Mac Neill), An Tir. I know them only via email, but we have exchanged a lot over the years. My five names to add. I wish I could assign a weighted average, instead of a rank order: it's hard to place these. Unranked, they are: Mark Wroth (Eirikr Sigurdarson), Caid. Alex Newman (Aleksandr Yevsha), East. Tom Ireland-Delfs (Fridrikr Tomasson), East. David Corliss (Beorthwine of Grafham Wood), Middle. Wilson Heydt (Hal Ravn), West. I'm a bit concerned with Hal, as our California representation is high. But he's a super-thoughtful man. The same geographic issues apply to the Easterners. Proposed list for you to rank and amend: 1. Robert Ament (Robert of the Isles) (83) 2. Michael Andrews (Michael Fenwick) (88) 3. Karin Thirlwell (Erna Kajadotter) (106) 4. Karen Green (Karen Larsdatter) (59) 5. Thomas Yasin (Bjorn hinn Heppni) (27) I can't rank these now, as I have no resumes with me. I would note that # 2 is one of my picks, and Karen Green has been involved in an ugly flamewar lately on the Rialto: I wonder about appearances. She's smart, articulate, and motivated. (And, in a very few years, impressed folks in both Caid and Atlantia). But she is showing a stubborn streak that makes me stop and think. I agree with your right to pick her, but I'd rank her low right now. Tibor asked about Canadians. Here's the list of those remaining: 21 Michael Cohen Mencken Brechen Ontario 65 Andrew Draskoy Miklos Newfoundland 105 Steve Muhlberger Finnvarr de Taahe Ontario 106 Karin Thirlwell Erna Kajadotter Alberta 110 Trent Becker Alen Bendbow Saskatchewan Miklos would duplicate the Newfoundland person we already have, Collete Goodyear (Alienor LLanfaes). The e-commentary on Karin is mixed. Both Michael Cohen and Finnvarr get good reviews. Trent get's a single good review too, and is noted as young and eager, but with a great future. I eagerly await your response. Well, we all put our 2 people/cents in. With a Canadian seat filled by Finnvarr, or some other, and Hossein (jury is still out, I know) I hope we are done. If we are not, and we must fill a seventh seat, then I honestly don't think it is critical who we pick. I would happily let you pick one randomly, Caroline, and let us hold veto power over it. I don't know how you feel about your "5 choices" but I think mine are closely spaced together. I'd happily just roll dice on them. Given the mathematics of the situation, I think the "rank and sum" methodology is suspect. The size of the vote pool is so small, that anyone with a weight of 4 or higher, possibly 3 or higher, is out of the running anyway. Why not take the 15 or 14 that are left (with my choice of Michael Andrews) and have a lottery? Tibor >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Mar 16 11:35:40 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 10:35:15 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Cc: CORWYN@aol.com Subject: Re: last batch Corwyn wanted Karin Thirlwell's info. She sent her application by postal mail, so here's the synopsis from the database: ID: 106 First Name: Karin Last Name: Thirlwell SCATitle: Lady SCAFirstName: Erna SCASurName: Kajadotter Address: 244 Regency Drive City: Sherwood Park State: Alberta Postal Code: T8A 5P6 Country: Canada Home Phone: 403 449 1593 Kingdom: An Tir ModQual1: Owns Small Business for Historic theme parties ModQual2: Former Genetics Lab Technician ModQual3: Written handbooks on autocratting, cooking ModQual4: Volunteer/Demo coordinator SCAQual1: Former Local Seneschal SCAQual2: AoA, Goutte de Sang SCAQual3: In outlying branch SCAQual4: Canadian I guess the ranking will have to wait until Monday. Arggh. We need this to be a BIG priority when you get back, Corwyn, please. Tibor, please send us your 2 picks and ranking by Friday so that we will just be awaiting Corwyn's work. I, too, am frustrated that this is taking so long. But there's nothing we can do about it now; we just need to get done next week instead of this week. There are a number of lessons here, which we should discuss AFTER we're done with the people picking, so the other committees on the GC can learn from our mistakes. Caroline clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Mar 16 11:43:37 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 10:42:56 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: Another reason to be done next week I have realized another reason why we MUST be done picking people by Friday the 24th: the Board meeting deadline. Renee ignores stuff that arrives at the office later than the 24th, and the list of applicants needs to be in my report. I'd rather not mail the GC report to all board members if possible. Corwyn, are you going to the Board Meeting by any chance? Caroline >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Mar 16 11:43:39 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 10:47:41 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Cc: corwyn@aol.com Subject: Re[2]: Your Application to the Grand Council This answer satisfies me. I vote yes. Caroline ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Your Application to the Grand Council Author: greg@bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose) at CCGTWINT Date: 3/15/95 11:36 PM Greetings to Caroline from Hossein! I think the best way in which to respond to your query is with an example. In all my time on the net the person with whom I have had the bitterest exchange is Ed Kreyling (Erik of Telemark); we came out of that one friends and he is the person who has asked me to head the Marketing Committee and with whom I have as cordial a working relationship as I could hope for. Some of the rhetoric I have used in the past has been extremely forceful and, perhaps, alienating to some. However, I point out that that was written at a time when many of us thought our backs were against the wall -- when the board was brandishing threats of revocation of membership and the mandamus action was at its bitterest. I also point out that much the same was coming from the other side. I think that the time for that level of confrontation is past, as indicated by my willingness to do the financial analysis for the Board and to accept the Marketing Committee chairmanship. Ask Lee or Eddie or Randall what my public response was to the allegation that the Board was still concealing financial data at the Milpitas meeting. I study politics for a living and I know how words are used to political ends. I am perfectly capable of molding what I say to the situation. If I can deal cordially with Randall, I doubt there's anyone on the GC with whom I could not work equally well. I also think it is important to have voices from the left wing of the reform movement on the GC and that I have been one of the more articulate of those voices. I think it is a fundamental mistake to assume that people who disagree are incapable of working together. I am willing to make a sincere effort to do so. If others are not, then the problem is theirs, not mine. Hossein/Greg >From CORWYN@aol.com Thu Mar 16 13:40:24 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 13:38:25 -0500 From: CORWYN@aol.com To: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu, clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com Cc: CORWYN@aol.com Subject: Suprise ! Just a very brief moment online after all. One cancelled meeting. Here's "the work" to be done by me. At present, 32 members. Yes, Hossain's answer is excellent. I vote yes, and gladly. (33) All of the six picks are in: (39) Yes, we have four Calonterii. Perhaps not great, but given that suddenly everyone else is finally insisting that we get this done NOW, livable. This representaion issue is, I think, one argument for leaving a few seats unfilled. But that seems to be a dead issue, so, onward. Hopefully, then, the Canadian slot is the only open one. As for Canadians, Steve Muhlberger would work, as would my original choice of Trent Becker. Steve would be great for his experience, Trent for being a newer fresher SCA person for the comittee. I vote yes to either, equally. (40) We have 40. This is great. Let's bag the rank-ordering scheme. This is the really effort intensive part of the plan, and I should clarify that I would not be able to report my picks until tuesday or wednesday. I said I was _coming back_ Monday, late. I am not going to be able to unload from a likely very muddy and wet tourney and sit down to sort thru the apps and reply by midnight. Okay, thats 40. Are we done ? I'll read my mail once either late tonight or early tomorrow. Let me know if this means we are done. Yes, we should discuss the problems of this comittee. A big one is this "drag then rush" pace, as was the lack of a specific written goal, both of which have been illustrated by the events of the last week. Corwyn, frustrated too, etc. >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Thu Mar 16 13:56:54 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 12:59:49 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: Now we are 40 Thanks, Corwyn, for getting that meeting canceled!! :) I believe we are done. The remaining 8 members are, for clarification: Hossein Gyrth Terras Michael Fenwick of Ansteorra Fiacha, An Tir Alban St. Albans Edric Hartwood Finvarr I will contact these gentles with the same letter I sent the others and give Justin the address information. This will be done either this evening or tomorrow during the day. The remaining gentles will be thanked for their application and told that they will be put in the pending file. I thank you for your help with this difficult job. In another note, I will describe how I feel the process worked and didn't work, along with some suggestions on how to do it differently next time. I encourage you all to do the same. I think other email committees will have similar problems, and we should be able to use what we've learned to keep it from happening again. I remain, ever in Service, Caroline clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Sun Mar 19 23:33:59 1995 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 95 21:22:42 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: 100040.134@compuserve.com, 75006.1632@compuserve.com, 75533.553@compuserve.com, ad480@rfgn.epcc.edu, aefric@eworld.com, albion@castle.ed.ac.uk, andrew@bransle.ucs.mun.ca, aodhan@aobharchu.org, athomp5355@aol.com, berridge@crash.cts.com, bildoto@gdss.gruman.com, broach@twinearth.wustl.edu, ccee@rl.af.mil, corliss@hal.physics.wayne.edu, cranon@aol.com, crouchet@infinity.ccsi.com, csjlm@eiu.edu, edwards@elwha.evergreen.edu, em029@cleveland.freenet.edu, fridrikr@world.std.com, gr049@ollac.ollusa.edu, hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz, james.yakura@ftcollins.co.ncr.com, jcbv+@andrew.cmu.edu, jdowney@bigcat.missouri.edu, jgawron@hpbs669.boi.hp.com, joconnor@mailer.fsu.edu, jphughes%ukanvm.bitnet@vm42.csu.uiuc.edu, julifolo@ux1.csi.uiuc.edu, jwhowe@artsci.wustl.edu, kgreen2@osf1.gmu.edu, kiev@mit.edu, kmg@infosys.is.uwm.edu, leslie.schweitzer@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org, lmartin@ns1.unicomp.com, macdj@onr.com, medhbh@delphi.com, menken@micor.ocunix.on.ca, nostrand@mathstat.yorku.ca, pd06490@wapol.gov.au, rament@aol.com, rodmur@ecst.csuchico.edu, sirbrand@u.washington.edu, tmarsh@ns1.unicomp.net, troll@bridge.sug.org, una@bregeuf.stonemarch.org, vader@meryl.csd.uu.se, vnend@phoenix.princeton.edu, witherspoon@suu.edu Cc: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: Thank you for applying to the Grand Council Greetings from Lady Caroline Forbes of Oxfordshire, Grand Council Coordinator! Dear Gentles, I apologize in advance for this somewhat impersonal note. Thank you for applying to the Grand Council. At this time, however, we are not in need of your skills and experience. We will be keeping your application on file in case we need someone with your background in the future. Since you have shown an interest in the Grand Council, you may wish keep in touch with the happenings of the Grand Council. To subscribe to the Grand Council Chronicle, send an email to: listproc@lists.princeton.edu with SUBSCRIBE SCAGC-L , where has your real or Society name, in the body of the message. Back issues of the Chronicle are available at ftp.gc.sca.org. You may post to the Chronicle through a member of the Grand Council. The Rialto and Reform lists have recently received the list of members. If you have any questions about the appointment process, please email or write me. If you would like to be removed from further consideration, please let me know that as well. Again, thank you for your application and for your desire to help the Society. I remain, ever in Service, Caroline clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com Carol L. Smith/14713 Mill Spring Drive/Chesterfield, MO 63017-5654 USA >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Tue Mar 21 15:01:43 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 14:03:18 cst From: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: Grand Council Membership Our first decline. Phil Anderson (number 98) is her suggested replacement, who received a yes from Tibor, and nothing from the rest of us (as far as I can tell from a cursory look). Any comments or objections to Phil? I think we need a Kiwi. Caroline clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Grand Council Membership Author: Dorian_Davis@equinox.gen.nz (Yoshitoshi) at CCGTWINT Date: 3/18/95 10:13 PM Unto Lady Caroline Forbes of Oxfordshire, Grand Council CoOrdinator. Know that this day Matsuyama Yoshitoshi sends humble and courteous greetings. Good My Lady, Thank you for your recent post nominating me to the Grand Council. Unfortunately I must decline the nomination due to changed financial circumstances; for one, the sheer volume of mail depletes my account rapidly, and I only have limited resources at present. Secondly, I have had problems setting up my off-line reader, and am reduced to reading and responding on-line (a time limit is imposed by my server of 90 minutes a day). I suggest that Phil Anderson (Lord Edward the Discalceate) be offered the position. He is keenly interested in furthering the aims and objectives of the Grand Council, and I have every faith in his ability to do the job. Yours respectfully in Service, Matsuyama Yoshitoshi Shire of the Southron Gaard, Caid Dorian Davis Christchurch, New Zealand >From schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Tue Mar 21 15:43:18 1995 Return-Path: From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: Grand Council Membership To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:33:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu In-Reply-To: <9502217958.AA795823593@ccmail.monsanto.com> from "CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com" at Mar 21, 95 02:03:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 108 Any comments or objections to Phil? I think we need a Kiwi. Dah, need a Kiwi. Sounds good. Tibor >From CaptRipper@aol.com Thu Mar 23 16:28:50 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:27:58 -0500 From: CaptRipper@aol.com To: CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com, CORWYN@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: Corwyn Hello to all on the GC membership comittee. I hope thse are all the correct EMail lines. Corwyn asked me to let you know that he's flat on his back with a nasty case of flu, has been for a day or two, and that he's likely to be out of touch for a few more days. If there is anything ABSOLUTELY urgent, you can try calling him. He seems most conscious from about noon to eight. Otherwise, I'm betting that he'll be up again sun or mon. I'd suggest sending me a note, but: 1. I don't know when I'll drop by their house again this week 2. I don't know how confidential these talks are. So, anyway, hope this helps Dave Ripar "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that..." >From CLSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com Fri Mar 24 11:28:26 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 09:03:40 cst From: "CAROL L SMITH" To: corwyn@aol.com, justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com, mcosta@leland.stanford.edu, schuldy@abel.math.harvard.edu Subject: Added Phil Anderson/Edward the No Shoes Hi. I hope you're feeling better, Corwyn! I took the liberty of putting Phil Anderson/Edward the Discalceate (sp?) on the GC. Hope no one minds terribly much (I know Tibor doesn't, and Corwyn, in your illness you may not either. :) ). I had to make an executive decision because the Board report is due today. Phil has been sent the welcome letter. I will forward his info to Justin when I get an OK back from him. Bumming about the first non-warm Springlike day in weeks (it's in the 40's and overcast :( ), Caroline clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com