======================= Grand Council Chronicle ======================= Issue #8 -- March 22, 1995 Contents of this issue: Justin: GC *should* be time-limited Alban: Intro; Territoriality Caroline: List of the Full Council Alysoun: Introduction, Concerns about purpose John: GC Issues; Various Restructuring Opinions Fiacha: Introduces Himself to the GC & Proposes a Project Terras: Introduction, GC Issues Randell: Introduction, GC Issues, Decentralization This is the Grand Council Chronicle, the proceedings of the Grand Council of the Known World, a body chartered to examine the structure of the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc., and make recommendations of changes. The contents represent the opinions of the contributing authors, and do not necessarily represent the official policies of the SCA, Inc. ---------------------------------------- >From the Secretary's Desk Welcome to all the new members of the Council! Either shortly before or after this issue goes out, I will be sending all of the new net-based members copies of the previous issues; the postal-based members should be receiving theirs shortly. Since the nominating committee has just completed its main task, and appointed the remaining members of the Council (and since I have relatively little time today to put the list together), I'm going to delay the list of members' addresses; in either issue 9 or 10 I'll run the *complete* list of members' addresses. New members of the Council: if you do *not* want your postal addressed published, please tell me ASAP. And if you would like additional information like phone number or email address to be available, please tell me that also. I will assume that, if you have listed additional information in a public message to the GC, then you are willing to have that distributed as part of the address list, unless you tell me otherwise. Note, BTW, that the complete rosters of members (pending confirmation by the Board) is posted below. Also -- Randell (in a PS to her note below) asked me whether I accept/like floppies. Yes, I love to receive floppies, provided a) they are IBM 3 1/2" disks, and b) they are in a format I can cope with (ASCII, Microsoft Word, or something that Word can easily import). Saving me typing is always welcome, although not necessary (I've got one of these newfangled keyboards that almost force you to touch-type, and I'm getting back into the habit)... -- Justin ---------------------------------------- Greetings unto the Grand Council from Justin du Coeur! Just one quick point here, which several people pointed out to me -- In issue 7, Bertrik writes: >Alltough I can >understand the haste that some have in getting the discussion started, >I am hoping that we all wanted to build some solid (With that I mean, >excisting past the date of jan 1997) organ out of this grand Councel. I do *not* agree with this -- I disagree most fervently. The GC was set up specifically to be a limited-time affair, a one-shot body intended to provide recommendations for the Society's broad structural problems. It was *deliberately* not constituted to be an ongoing body, and it is not clear whether its basic charter is appropriate to an ongoing task. For example, the GC is mildly self-selecting, although not quite as much so as the Board. While this shouldn't be a problem over the two years we're going to be here (because two years probably isn't enough time for a philosophical faction to really "take over", given the diversity of mindset we currently have), it *could* lead to something akin to "Boardthink" in the long run. Yes, there may be a need for an ongoing philosophical body. Frankly, it should be the Board -- that's what Boards of Directors are *supposed* to do. The GC is needed because our current Board is wildly over-burdened with putting out immediate fires. But in the long run, I really hope that the Board will be freed up to do this sort of long-term strategic thinking. (All of this, of course, assuming that we wind up retaining the central Corporation, which is likely although not certain.) Or other structures. The point is, that isn't what we're here for, and we shouldn't waste time on it. We should be working out procedures for what we *have* been chartered for, not worrying about the ones we haven't... ---------------------------------------- >From ALBAN@delphi.com Sat Mar 18 21:38:48 1995 Subject: intro; territoriality background: alban st. albans is a low- to mid-level bureaucrat in the court of Henry VII, by grace of god king of england; i had a long and sordid history, but now am content to live modestly and quietly, with the hopes of eventually marrying, having kids, and dying peacefully in my bed of nothing more than old age. ted eisenstein has a ba in history and art history, and a bs in data processing, both of which proved to be useless in finding good jobs (phd's in art history are driving taxis, and i got the bs/dp 3 months after two major st. louis employers cut back severely and flooded the marked with experienced computer people). i've also had some additional schooling in biology and in law (1 1/2 years, before i got disgusted with it). i'm now a gentleman farmer, with a 1480 acre farm out in rural mid-missouri, which allows me enough time (especially in non-growing seasons, which means late september through late march) to do a lot of reading and sca stuff. interests: researching brewing, cooking, and herbs and agricultural-type things (i'm a decent liqueur maker and indifferent cook, but love doing the research....). sca awards so far are for service (the calontir orders of the torse (aoa level) and cross of calontir (goa level), mainly for heraldry. for a while i was the morsulus herald, on laurel king of arm's staff for maintenance and publication of the armorial and ordinary; calontir clerk of the precedence; registrar for the calontir royal university; and am currently lanner herald, one of the calontir commenters on internal and external letters of intent. i also have a small side business of selling books at pennsic and other events (mainly books put out by sca members - complete anachronists, heraldic symposia, cookbooks, songbooks, miscellanies). i've been in the sca since october of 1975, and have regretted recently meeting college freshmen who were born after i joined. i've been in calontir since i joined (except for a very brief time when i was housesitting in atlantia), and more specifically been a resident of the barony of three rivers (st. louis) and the shire of the standing stones (columbia, mo). email address: i prefer alban@delphi.com, but can also be reached at alban@aol.com. snailmail: ted eisenstein, 3940 highway h, fayette, mo., 65248. (816) 456-7590, no calls after 11:00 PM central time, and if you call before 11:00 am, expect some snarling and rude comments. territoriality: i used to be strongly in favor of one group per region; now, i'm tending toward a more fluid system so that or groups of people who do not get along at all can still share a town, city, or whatever. if two groups in the shire of fenwick simply cannot agree on anything, why not allow them to form upper fenwick and lower fenwick? there should be a way to settle some disagreements other than by disbanding the whole schmear. kingdoms split into principalities with distinct personalities (anyone who's been around a long enough time can tell you calontir was certainly a thorn in the side of the midrealm; we were certainly NOT at all getting along peacefully with the middle for a long while); principalities have smaller divisions in baronies; baronies can have several distinctly different groups in cantons. why not allow shires the same privilege? and, in any case, there are both formalized and informalized groups already in existence; they're called households, and guilds, and jobs (heralds are everywhere.) the only disadvantage i see is in recruitment of new members. having two sca groups both show up at a university activities day, or both groups doing their own pr/advertising in local papers/radio stations, will lead to a great deal of confusion. and if the groups split apart not because of differing interests but because of intense dislike, potential new members will be instantly sucked into the sordid side of the sca. possible solution: if the corporation winds up being a federation of kingdoms, the kingdoms could each wind up being a federation of local groups, and such local divisions could best be solved on a kingdom level. even the decision of _whether_ to have local divisions might best be left to each kingdom. (history repeats: why do i get the feeling the sca might wind up having kingdoms spanning the entire spectrum of central control, like england, through many divisions with a common culture like, oh, germany, all the way through independent city states that just happen to be next to each other, like italy?....and not forgetting small groups ignoring the intensely political and deadly power struggles at the top, like japan). corporate services: it's too early to go into this in any depth, but i'd like to suggest that people start thinking about not only what parts/services of the corporation may need to be changed or eliminated, but which services they'd like the corporation to add, if any. a really good library available at corporate offices? a known-world- sponsored living history farm? travelling road shows going to high schools, dealing with a day in the life of a french 13th century noble (or at least scripts for such)? the sca, inc., is, at least on paper, dedicated to research into and the re-creation of pre-1600 european history; shouldn't, techinically, the corporation actually being doing this as well as us local groups? or should the corporate papers be changed to reflect what the corporation is actually doing? about one of the items caroline forbes mentioned in chronicle 7, in re. lightening the load of the board members: this may be no more than a reluctance on the part of some board members to delegate, and then get out of the way. the board should set broad strategic policy, and then let the great officers or other duly-chosen representatives set tactics. (admittedly, there have been problems with this, but the board shouldn't completely abandon delegation just because of an occasional blip.) alban ---------------------------------------- [Caroline posted this to the Rialto and Reform; I thought the people here would also want to see it. I've edited it lightly, to make it (IMO) more readable -- Justin] Greetings unto the Gentles of the Rialto and Reform list from Lady Caroline Forbes of Oxfordshire, Grand Council Coordinator! The nominating committee has finished its work to complete the roster of gentles on the Grand Council. The entire list is below. Those not confirmed at the October or January Board meetings will be confirmed at the April meeting. The gentles not chosen at this time will remain available for addition to the Grand Council when there are vacancies unless they ask to be removed from consideration. All gentles have been notified, although those notified by postal mail may not receive any information for a few days. The nominating committee thanks all who submitted applications to the Grand Council or who commented on applicants. The choices were difficult. Please contact me if you have any questions on this list. Information on the Grand Council and how to subscribe to the Grand Council Chronicle can be found elsewhere. I remain, ever in Service, Caroline clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com Grand Council List as of 16 March 1994 In alphabetical order by SCA first name --------------------------------------- Honorable Lord Alban St Albans / Edward L. Eisenstein Mistress Alienor Llanfaes / Colette Goodyear Lady Alysoun de Ros / Carole C. Roos Lord Arthur the Dented / Scott Keys Master Bertram of Bearington / P. David Schroeder Lord Bertrik van Triecht / Bart Orbons Lord Brian O'Seabac / Guy M. Cox Sir Brion Thornbird / Brian R. Price Duke Cariadoc of the Bow / David D Friedman Lady Caroline Forbes / Carol L Smith Lady Catrin Gwyntstlum / Janna Geggus Spanne Baron Corwyn Da Costa / Manuel Martin Costa Sir Edric Aaron Hartwood / Kristofer Hellstrom Lady Eichling von Amrum / Janet Chennault Sir Eric Bearsbane / Eric Wagner Lord Fiacha Mac Neill / Nigel R. Haslock Duke Finnvarr de Taahe / Steve Muhlberger Duke Frederick of Holland / Frederick J. Hollander Lord Frithiof Skagge / Sven Noren Sir Galen Eadwin Kirchenbauer / Galen W. Bevel Master Gareth ap Tancred / Roy Gathercoal Duke Gyrth Oldcastle / Gerald O'Leary Honorable Lord Hossein Ali Qomi / Greg Rose Baroness Isabeau of the Wylde Woode / Angie Eves-Welsh Master John of Sternfeld / John Elmore Master Justin du Coeur / Mark Waks Sir Kyle of Kincora / Rolland K Smith Lord Magnus Maquire / James D. McManus Master Michael Fenwick / Michael L. Andrews Lord Modius Monsdraconis / Erik Langhans Sir Myrdin the Just / Michael G. Potter Sir Nathan Adelaar / Nathan Clarenburg Duke Olaf Askoldssonn / Charles Michael Curtis Mistress Randell Raye of Crianlarich / Laureen Hart Lady Sarah / Karen Penn Baron Serwyl ap Morgan / Chuck Hack Lord Terras / Joseph J. Heck Lord Tibor of Rock Valley / Mark Schuldenfrei Eques Titus Claudius / Tod Huckaby ---------------------------------------- >From Carole.C.Roos.2@nd.edu Mon Mar 20 09:16:49 1995 Subject: CG: Introduction, Concerns about purpose Greetings from Alysoun. I am honored to be among you. I am a 13th-century Englishwoman and an editor at a university press. Certainly we are all concerned with the organization of the Council and its policies and Caroline is wise to urge us to work on projects. If we begin to collect information now, the facts will be at hand when we are ready to consider them. But we can't evaluate that information or make suggestions until we agree on what we are trying to do. Even our own administrative policies may need to be adjusted in light of that purpose. Each of us brings to the Council perceptions based on our personal experiences and preferences. Some of us appear to have already decided what is wrong and how to fix it. Our work together will go more smoothly if we can set these convictions aside for a time and find a common starting point. While we are waiting for the remaining members to be selected, I would like to suggest one way of looking at the situation and hear what others think. Can we agree that the SCA is an organization? (Never mind for now how it is organized or the relation of the different parts.) Organizations can be divided into two types: (1) those in which the members serve the organization and (2) those in which the organization serves the members. This is the difference between, say, a preservation society and a bowling league. In the first, people join to support the goals of the organization (save the historic district); in the second, the organization exists to support the goals of the members (opportunities to bowl). Of course, every organization has a mix-the first fosters members with t-shirts and appreciation dinners and the second has people promoting the league and doing the paperwork-but you see the basic difference. If we consider the SCA as the first type, we should begin by looking at the goals of the organization and analyze everything else in terms of those goals. If we consider the SCA as the second type, we should begin by defining the membership and its goals, and work from there. A good case can be made for either view. I'm open on this-what do you think? If anyone wishes to write me: Carole Roos 1107 N. Notre Dame Ave. South Bend, IN 46617 ---------------------------------------- Subject: Message from John of Sternfeld for the GC GC - John Sternfeld; When we as GC should start the Job When a proposal is ready Proposals of Corp Structure First - are we ready yet to tackle the job? Last I heard Caroline and Tibor were looking at several more people to join the council. Are we at full strength yet? Waiting too long will be detremental but if we have to bring 20(?) more people up to speed will that be better? When is a proposal ready - as in time to start calling it a recommendation to the BoD for action. I would prefer the time when everyone posts "I can live with that" at least. Suggested procedure - Caroline or whoever is "champion" posts as Subject; Final form of X and everyone either comments or amends or says go. Without a concsensus in this forum I don't believe an idea has matured enough to meet the public, I am certain the general populus will be looking for the answer to the same question over agian. As for using Rober's Rule of Order - I have never been a big fan, they have always appeared to be as an instrument by which the chair of a committee can railroad their agenda thru (only speaking of non-SCA experiences, one of many reasons I'm in the Society). COMMENTS ON THE FEDERATION OF MINERAL SOCIETIES MODEL Real structure vs Formal Structure - I agree with Cariadoc that the Society is not functioning as it was originally idealized, it has gotten too big and diverse. We should consider reforming the on-paper model to reflect reality. The Kingdom Seneschals really have no way of personally being responsible for how a local Seneschal is serving the needs of the people. This is true of all Great Offices, especially in the Middle, the Kingdom officer can physically live, work and play 1,000 miles from a subordinate. Could we suggest the level of direct responsibility be lowered to the Regional/Principality lever? To where the person responsible to provide an objective viewpoint might be close enough to see and do something about a bad situation? 501(c)3 status If the IRS would allow reforming into smaller corporations, maybe at the Kingdom or even the Regional/Principality level. An advantage would be a lower litigation profile. In today's legal climate the less "deeper pockets" a corporation appears to have can avoid lawsuits - "they don't have enough to sue for". In addition, would the maintainance of our not-for-profit status be simplified? The smaller or fewer numbers each reporting exchequer has to handle would make their job simplier, with less numbers to verify or correct. TERRITORY My objection against the Mineral Federation model is the opening up of territories, where local groups could overlap, form and reform on top of each other. I have spent a large part of my time in the Society repairing schisms, they naturally arise when a group of people really care about something. If open territories were to be allowed I am afraid that all would remain is newly forming groups. Every time someone disagrees with their neighbor here would come another new group application. Local groups need a mix of old & new, quiet & verbose people to function well. With a limited control on the growth of groups in an area people will find ways to work problems out for the betterment of the group instead of splintering infinitely. BOARD RESPONSIBILITIES A Board of Directors in a mundane corporation does not involve itself in daily issues or make decisions that affect single or small groups of individuals. We have allowed our BoD to become the directors of our almost every move - 100% of the authority rests on them. We have proven this doesn't work. That responsibility would be too much for full timers, our directors are supposed to be donating part of their play-time. For starters, I agree (somebody has sent this before) the BoD should not be in the medieval side of the game unless there is a dire emergency that will affect 100% of the populus - like fighting with steel. Their responsibilities should lie within the modern world; insurance and national legal situations are the biggies that come to mind. Medieval policies, like weapons, award structures, banishments should be out of the board room. Yes, the BoD would have to set the policy for things like banishments, but reviewing every last case is absurd (IMHO). Decisions in the medieval context should be handled in some period fashion - treaties between the Kingdoms?, elected or appointed Council (term long enough to avoid being yanked for unpopular desisions). My bottomline here is our BoD's area of responsibility should be comparable to that of a corporation, not the cairs of every committee in the club. THE REGISTRY Put this at the Kingdom level - where it is used. Even in the Middle our share (~4500) could be run on a PC or minicomputer by a bolunteer. As the Society continues to grow a nation registry database is going to require more and more funds - I'm hearing complaints now at the level of membership funds required. The alternative is to rent time on a capable system or build our own. Time from a professional data base company may be reasonably cost wise, but the response time will not be better than what we have now. Most all of the modern world's nationa magazines are on databases somewhere in Boulder, CO or Iowa? Ever try to get a subscription address changed in less than 3 months? I believe a local dedicated system would be much more responsive. The catch of course will be finding enough people and equipment willing to perform this function for each Kingdom. TI - publisher sells copies at cost to each Kingdom, they stick their own labels and postage on'em. Subscription form for all Kingdom newsletters could be included in TI. More later, In Service John ---------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 16:44:45 -0800 (PST) From: Nigel Haslock Subject: Fiacha Introduces Himself to the GC & Proposes a Project Greetings from Fiacha, History - Born and raised in Liverpool. Studied Mathematics at the University there and drivted into computer sciences. Eventually left the nest to start a career programming and doing related stuff in London. After a handful of years wandered to Switzerland and explored landmarks like the birthplace of the Hapsburg dynasty. After four more years migrated to New Jersey and finally made contact with the SCA. After 8 years migrated again to the countryside within striking distance of Seattle (and still doing programming and related stuff). Background - Long standing interest in making things and minor interests in weapons, armor and heraldry. Attenpted to train as heavy, make armor, register name and device early on. Had a few bad experiences (in authorization bouts) and decided to give up fighting (E.K. does not allow non-fighting marshalls so I have taken little interest in fighting since then. Took office as Baronial Seneschal in 87 and help it until I moved to AnTir in 90. Took office as Kingdom Gamesmaster in 92 and passed on the office this last Twelfth Night. Filled idle moments making things (I think that my weaving is above average and that everything else is at journeyman level and that most people are easily impressed) and making trouble on the Rialto and more recently on sca-reform and the Cathedral Steps (AnTir's mailing list). Politics - I was brought up in a Barony that believed that the Society was open to all with out the need for paid memberships, that encouraged unity by allowing everyone to do what they thought was fun and by having leaders for Baron and Baroness rather than climbers. {A leader is not threatened by someone who skills equal or exceed their own. A climber must constantly strive to be visibly better at everything.} Thus I favor a structure for the society makes it easy for leaders to shine, makes it cheap and easy to join and makes it easy to learn from the errors of our predeceasors. Finally * * * * A PROPOSAL * * * * I would like to separate the SCA Inc. Bylaws from Corpora. I would like the Bylaws to be the document that the Board and the realtionship between the Board and the Kingdoms that comprise the Society. I would like Corpora to describe the framework of a kingdom and its interactions with other kingdoms and with its populace. This is not a matter of changing any of the existing rules. It is a matter or moving some rules from one document to the other. Thus I propose that a sub committee be formed to examine the existing documents and preparing separable versions of them. I would be happy to join such a committee but I would prefer not to be the chair. One of the more valuable aspects of this effort would be the ability to require foreign national kingdoms to comply with Corpora while tying them to the bylaws of a corporation with a set of bylaws that satisfy the needs of the host nation instead of the current U.S. centric regulations that are not universally acceptable. Fiacha ---------------------------------------- From: ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu (Joseph Heck) Subject: GC: Introduction, GC Issues Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:32:09 -0600 (CST) - - - Introduction Hello, I'm Terras - I've been in the SCA for ten years now, staying primarily within Calontir and the Middle Kingdom. I have worked at most every level within a kingdom, from support for a Crown, local seneschal, local minister of Arts and Sciences, to a deputy Kingdom officer. My personal interestes have ranged from metalwork to calligraphy, all of which I continue to work on. I currently live in Calontir. - - - GC Issues Re: Territorial I do not want to see multiple groups in one area. I don't have an eloquant position for this. My reasoning is that I've seen a lot of smaller groups simply burn out their resources and have no central group to help them pull together again. Most of the groups I've seen have cyclic routines of who's doing what - usually a small group does most of the work, building their egos and reputation, until they move on or burn out. Then another group takes over some of the core functions and continues. Allowing groups to split out will blow all the resources in short, very active, times - leaving less than nothing for the interim times. Re: Goals Do we want to eventually become a bunch of groups doing similiar, but different medieval re-enactments? The SCA, Inc - with it's central authority - has held us close enough that the East kingdom can play with the West and Calontir, all under similar rules. Remove that authority, and the rules will diverge farther. Do we want to maintain our universal diversity? A number of groups would prefer to be more specific - delving down into specific time lines and recreations. Remove the authority at Corporate level that says: we re-create all aspects and all times, accept the differences between 600 A.D. and 1600 A.D., accept any reasonable attempt to recreate aspects of the middle ages (i.e. what I see as the function of corpora and the policy descisions) and we'll see the SCA fragment into a large number of groups that deal with more specific recreations and time periods. I've worked with a few groups in England & Wales that do recreation - they don't work together very often, often feel animosity towards each other, and compete for the same audiences. The don't recreate for themselves as much as they do it for others. Along these lines, they're often very inactive during the "off season" - winter. One of the footholds I've held within the SCA is that we do recreations for ourselves, not an audience. Our primary focus is internal - our events, not the demos we provide to the public as an "educational" organization. Is it time to change this focus? It will make a great deal of difference on how we're organized and where we (the SCA) are going. Terras -- joe (314) 882-5000 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu University of Missouri - Columbia "with a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" -- Calvin ccjoe ---------------------------------------- [From Randell Raye -- first person to send a submission by post. Any typos are my fault -- Justin.] Dear Justin, first let me abjectly apologize for failing to contact you and the council sooner. Between receiving chronicles 1 and 2 I was bitten on the face by a friend's very large dog. First there were a couple of weeks of medical trauma, then the process of catching up, working, looking for different work, and generally resuming my life. To introduce myself -- I am Randell Raye of Crianlarich, a mid 14th century Scottish lass living in the Kingdom of An Tir with my adored early 16th century Italian mate. In my youth I traveled to France to accompany the young exiled King David II; this gave me a lifelong taste for travel. My other passions include cookery and costuming. I have been active in the SCA for 19 years. Laureen Rae Hart is a Food Scientist currently seeking employment in food product development. I have lived all 37 of my years in Seattle, Washington. Having joined the SCA in my late teens, lived through the An Tir rebellion and subsequent Kingdom formation, I hope to be able to bring a broad perspective to our discussion. I am open minded and have already been greatly stimulated by the discussion in the chronicles so far. In terms of correspondence, I like the mailed chronicles as I don't currently have access to Email. Weekly posts work fine for me. Having had Internet access in the past, I agree that a slant can develop. (Not that slants are exclusive to any medium.) My biggest opposition to the net is that it can be so easy to post. As a result, the volume could get overwhelming. I agree that the BOD and IAC should be welcome to comment, but not vote; I like Serwyl's idea of putting those comments at the end of the chronicle. There may be less flow to a given discussion, but there will be less confusion about possible views being specific to any one group. I would tend to agree with those who feel that we need to define our group goals and charter before we leap into all of the why's and wherefore's. Yet at the same time, I find great promise in the topics under discussion. To wit: I agree that we have more similarity with the Masons and other clubs than we generally like to think. I agree that de-centralization, similar to other clubs, need not "kill" us if handled properly. Decentralizing publications, and tying them to local subscription/ membership might work very well for increasing productivity for local groups and need not be feared as a huge life complicating event. I like the idea of tying the TI with the umbrella group and the local with the sub group. Possibly the local groups could handle/forward the umbrella applications. Of course there are myriad potential problems in any given system. I should stop now and get this printed, or I will miss the mailman. For the group directory my information is as follows: Randell Raye of Crianlarich c/o Laureen Hart 14550 20th Ave. NE Seattle, WA 98155 206-361-9545 I am kind of hard to catch by phone; my lord and I get a lot of calls. We tend to screen them using the answering machine. It sounds so obvious, but, if folks leave their name and number, I will call them back! Sorry I took so long to check in. Randell ----------------------------------------